LotR and subgroups

[Thinlómien]

Has anyone ever noticed that there are certain groups which in LotR fans are more probably found?

(You can lynch me for using wrong terms though I'd prefer being corrected - I've no idea about slang terms in English...)

In Finland, LotR fans are mostly found among heavy-music listeners, computer geeks and hippies, though I think there were both more hippies and hippie-LotR-fans say twenty to forty years ago.

Funnily enough, I find features of all these subgroups in myself.

So the question is: in there where you live are there certain subgroups with more than average percentage () of LotR-fans? If there are, are they the same I mentioned?

I know nowadays that has changed and there are more and more LotR-fans in different groups because of the movies...

(Anyway, I don't count a 12-year old huge Orlando-fan who has seen the movies 100 times and maybe, with chance, read the book once - whatever she claims to be - a LotR-fan...)

Any comments?

[Valier]

Interesting Thinlomien! I find here in Canada there are pretty much only dorks and geeks who like LOTR. Not that there is anything wrong with that! I guess I would fall into both those catagories. At the university I go to there is a medi-evil club, but I find that a little too "geeky" for my taste! Even though they do serve beer.

[Naria]

Not true Valier! I wouldn't generalize the whole of Canada to be dorky or geeky because they like LOTR. I would assume that there are alot of 'ordinary' people that like LOTR just as much as we do and don't consider themselves to be dorks. However, not all of them would find a site such as BD and obsess everyday over it like we do....I think we would fall in the geeky category for sure !

[Eonwe]

The only one that applies to me (though slightly) would be computer geek. I'm not really into computers, just online killing.

Actually, none of the people I know who like LoTR really fall into any of those categories. The thing is, people I know are completely obsessed with LoTR (ie. annual Gathering of the Fellowship, dressing up, watching all three back-to-back-to-back, etc.) but none of them are nerds or geeks in any way. A love of fantacy doesn't necessarily place you in that catagory, though very often it does.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

In Finland, LotR fans are mostly found among heavy-music listeners, computer geeks and hippies, though I think there were both more hippies and hippie-LotR-fans say twenty to forty years ago.

What does 'heavy-music listeners' mean exactly? I think that I know but I'd rather be sure.

And though I use a computer daily, can code a bit and tear one apart (just enough knowledge to be dangerous ), I would not consider myself a computer geek. Once thought that I was a total nerd, but then went to a "Star Trek" convention, at which time I realized that I was trending more towards normal. The fact that I'm married and have children places me closer to the norm than the geek label.

Hippies!?! I love tie-dyed shirts, as nothing hides the stains acquired when my children decide to clean their hands on 'daddy's shirt,' but am definitely not into the hippy lifestyle at all.

Though those that read may be considered more geeky than football starry, I'd think that you can find Tolkien readers across many demographics.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by alatar

What does 'heavy-music listeners' mean exactly? I think that I know but I'd rather be sure.

Originally Posted by alatar

Meaning?

You ask me questions that confuse me...

Heavy music listeners = people who listen to heavy/ metal music. My category for the music is quite wide; I count bands like Nightwish as well as Iron Maiden and such.

Meaning? = What do I mean by academic people??? Well, most of of age Tolkien-fans I know are either university students or people who have an university degree at something.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

You ask me questions that confuse me...

Sorry - it's not intentional. Sometimes confusion follows me like a hungry Warg.

Heavy music listeners = people who listen to heavy/ metal music. My category for the music is quite wide; I count bands like Nightwish as well as Iron Maiden and such.

That's what I thought, but when you wrote "heavy music," I, being somewhat older and mostly out of touch with the current trends, just thought that maybe you were referring to something else and not heavy metal music. Plus your definition and mine (Quiet Riot, AC/DC, Def Leppard, etc) may differ.

Another more obscure definition of "heavy music," as we're also discussing Tolkien, may be some classical music or stuff by some physicist turned composer that may be above the heads of the many. One never knows, and so I asked.

Meaning? = What do I mean by academic people??? Well, most of of age Tolkien-fans I know are either university students or people who have an university degree at something.

Okay, so you're just stating that many Tolkien-lovers that you know have extended education and nothing more (i.e. have high IQs or something). Is that because many people you know have degrees or are students, or of the group that you hang out with, those with degrees/are students like Tolkien? See the difference? Not that I'm asking you to do a study or provide scientific results or something, but just want to note the difference.

Thanks for this thread.

[Thinlómien]

That's what I thought, but when you wrote "heavy music," I, being somewhat older and mostly out of touch with the current trends, just thought that maybe you were referring to something else and not heavy metal music. Plus your definition and mine (Quiet Riot, AC/DC, Def Leppard, etc) may differ.

I count them too, though the LotR-fan heavy music listeners tend to be (as far as I know) the ones who don't particularly listen to the bands you mentions, though I don't know; clothing style does not always tell all kind of bands the person listens to.

Okay, so you're just stating that many Tolkien-lovers that you know have extended education and nothing more (i.e. have high IQs or something). Is that because many people you know have degrees or are students, or of the group that you hang out with, those with degrees/are students like Tolkien? See the difference? Not that I'm asking you to do a study or provide scientific results or something, but just want to note the difference.

I can see the difference, but I'm still inclined to think so. If I'm not mistaken, most Finnish Tolkien society guys and 'downers (???) have an academic background. Besides, I'm probably not hanging on academic groups; I'm still doing my compulsory education...

[the guy who be short]

I once had a theory that all those ostracized by society liked fantasy in general, and usually Tolkien in particular, as a form of escapism.

I now think it's utter rubbish. My sample was tiny and unrepresentative.

the common denominator here is ...intelligence!no matter what your musical preference is...no matter what social status or age or point of origin...intelligent, literate,humourous people like LoTr.he appeals to a wide, general populace.i'm no dork or geek, i can barely use a computer, but there is something in tolkien that reaches down and grabs your soul.it awakens something in your being and draws you in. there's nothing nerdy about that..thats the legacy of a brilliant writer.

[Nogrod]

I hope you won't lynch me after this one.

There are many ways to differentiate people into two groups. One I can see here, is the difference between the "romantic-reactionaries" and the "modernist-activists". Tolkien surely was of the first class, and I guess many of his admirers are so too. Compare Tolkien to the modernists of his day (eg. the artists, writers, composers, choreographists of the 20's to 50's...) and you can see the difference.

But then he was taken in by the hippie-movement of the 60's, and the rest is "history"... Well the hippies anyhow fought against the then academic and abstractly intellectual art-scene as bourgeois-bluff. Not without a reason I think. Somehow a reactionary became the activist...

I was kind of a hippy as a young guy - and in a sense I am still (I still enjoy Jefferson Airplane, Frank Zappa and even Led Zeppelin) - and love Tolkien. By the same time I tried to make this love of Tolkien coherent with my radical social ideas. That was a tough one, and still is.

But surely I can see Tolkien in a different light now: calling for the best ideas of conservatism: love, trust, companionship, care for others... But still the institutions he kind of sanctified, are dubious to any social activist today: patriarchality, "family-values", social conservatism, sticking to the ways things have been in an idealized mode - not really seeing the suppressive structures behind them etc...

But surely people could be differentiated in regards of liking Tolkien in many other ways also...

[Lalwendë]

Tolkien is associated with geeks, yes, but just look at the kind of members on the Downs and they aren't stereotypical geeks by a long way. We have a solicitor, an accountant, several teachers and tutors, and um...a civil servant. Members seem to be into a wide range of interests too, and not everyone is just into Led Zep! Not that there's owt wrong with that (I have to say that, casting a sideways glance at the CDs... ).

One thing that everyone does seem to have in common is that all Tolkien fans seem to enjoy reading and watching films, and we do seem to be a discerning lot, judging by the comments we make. We also seem to be pretty literate - a lot of other more general forums are characterised by text speak and incoherent, unbalanced opinions. I wonder if that's something to do with being Tolkien fans or because this is a forum primarily about a writer's work?

But, ahem, I do have to admit, I have an internet addiction, I like gadgets, I like a lot of rock and alternative music (and a lot of the old 70s meandering and vaguely folky rock too) and I am a right old tree-hugger.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

We also seem to be pretty literate - a lot of other more general forums are characterised by text speak and incoherent, unbalanced opinions. I wonder if that's something to do with being Tolkien fans or because this is a forum primarily about a writer's work?

I must say, I don't think this is to do with Tolkien or writers in general, primarily.

It owes everything to the Barrow-Wight and the habitues of the Downs. It's a quite remarkable process, and I've never seen a forum, Tolkien or otherwise, like it. Particularly as elsewhere people can be intelligent, but still unpleasant to those they consider less so. But here-there is a real sense of equality and camaraderie.

[alatar]

Nogrod, that is so cool. Not only are we from the same time, I also like Zep (No greater rock band!) etc, but liked Tolkien for seeing the world more as I do, which is much opposite of your POV. The beating back of the Sauron and Saruman, who to me wanted to control everything, to the Scouring of the Shire, which showed "sharing and gathering" in such a poor light, only made me resonate with Tolkien even more as I grew older.

So I guess, from what I've seen on this thread so far, with the exception this group being Downers, being able to type and having internet access, we might not have that much in common.

[Legolas]

To clarify for the original poster - he is simply looking for examples of common interests among Tolkien fans that you might've noticed. alatar summed it up nicely, I think:

Though those that read may be considered more geeky than football starry, I'd think that you can find Tolkien readers across many demographics.

Thinlómien is not stereotyping, or looking for some narrow, always true classification/qualification system.

As for my own experience, I have found that many who like Tolkien also like good music. Led Zeppelin certainly was a reference point for me, and several others I know. When I was fifteen, I was able to move past my love of Queen. I lived and breathed Led Zeppelin for quite a while. It didn't take long to get past the studio albums to live recordings, websites, and figuring out what the songs were about.

There was a website then about Led Zeppelin lyrics (and the obvious/potential allusions to Middle-earth), eventually titled Stairway to Middle-earth (originally at http://www.auburn.edu/~speedhe/). It has now moved to http://www.ledtolkien.com (which redirects to http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~hayspeed/), though some of the personal content and less Tolkien-related content has been removed. Consequently, along with the newer graphics/layout, it feels a little less like the interesting little corner I found fascinating eight years ago. Nonetheless, just as Page had inspired my brother and I to pick up the guitar, Page and Plant inspired us to pick up The Lord of the Rings.

The only people at my high school who liked Tolkien (that I was aware of) were introverted and not ones to follow the crowd, but not antiestablish or nonconformists or something. Also, I often find '70s progressive rock fans that love Tolkien (possibly due to the focus on fantasy of each).