By george dwarves are british, i think - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morsul the Dark · 08-20-2005, 10:47 AM

Dwarven language very little is known about it for it is only used amongst theemselves dwarves don't even let out their right names.

but we have one clue moon letters, which if im not mistaken follow fashion of anglo-saxon runes in fact they are anglo-saxon rune so one could argue that dwarves speak anglo-saxon as ther secret language...right?

the guy who be short · 08-20-2005, 11:20 AM

Nope.

LotR = 3rd Age = Several thousand years ago.
Anglo-Saxon = 7th Age = Several centuries ago.

Plus all the other stuff I don't have time to type right at the moment.

Alcarillo · 08-20-2005, 02:10 PM

If any race was more Anglo-Saxon than any others it must be the Rohirrim. Tolkien showed Rohirric as Old-English, after all. An assumption based merely on runes seems to me like jumping to conclusions. We in fact do have a few words that come from Khuzdul, and they look rather alien to Old English. There's Barazinbar, Zirakzigil, Bundushathur, Buzundush, Azaghal, Azanulbizar, Mazarbul, Kibil-Nala, Sharbhund, and many other examples. We have examples of "secret" names for the petty-dwarves: Mim, Ibal.

Note: I have left out diacritic marks for the sake of convenience.

Guinevere · 08-20-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

so one could argue that dwarves speak anglo-saxon as ther secret language...right?

No, Anglo-Saxon is the language spoken by the Rohirrim! Or rather, just as Tolkien used modern English to "translate" Westron , he used Old English to "translate" the language of the Rohirrim. ("Westu Théoden hal!" etc)

The "outward" names of the Dwarves are of old Norse origin. I don't think their "secret language" is like any real language. It is invented by Tolkien, as are the Elven languages, but there are only a few words like "Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai menû!" What does that sound like ?

Gil-Galad · 08-20-2005, 02:31 PM

Dwarves have been in Norse Mythology, so Tolkien might have just used the Norse Dwarves as an example for his book

Mithalwen · 08-21-2005, 12:38 PM

Risking condemning this thread to a rapid transfer to mirth you might make a case for identifying dwarves as Oxford dons of a certain era.... grumpy, insular, proud, clannish, obsessed by their work above all things, prefering to keep their womenfolk tucked away and a distressing tendancy towards facial hair in the female of the species.....

Guinevere · 08-21-2005, 02:15 PM

I just found an interesting thread on this topic:

Ancient British cultures reflected in Middle-earth

especially posts # 25 (by Rumil), #26 (by the Squatter of Amon Rûdh) and #35 (by Man of the Old Hope) are very enlightening.

Bêthberry · 08-22-2005, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Risking condemning this thread to a rapid transfer to mirth you might make a case for identifying dwarves as Oxford dons of a certain era.... grumpy, insular, proud, clannish, obsessed by their work above all things, prefering to keep their womenfolk tucked away and a distressing tendancy towards facial hair in the female of the species.....

My, Mithalwen, I can just imagine dwarves participating in the raucous town and gown shambles.

The bit about secret names: how different is this from the habit of creating online anonymous nicknames and keeping personal names private?

08-20-2005, 10:47 AM	#1
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	By george dwarves are british, i think Dwarven language very little is known about it for it is only used amongst theemselves dwarves don't even let out their right names. but we have one clue moon letters, which if im not mistaken follow fashion of anglo-saxon runes in fact they are anglo-saxon rune so one could argue that dwarves speak anglo-saxon as ther secret language...right? __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

08-20-2005, 02:31 PM	#5
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	Dwarves have been in Norse Mythology, so Tolkien might have just used the Norse Dwarves as an example for his book __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

08-21-2005, 12:38 PM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Risking condemning this thread to a rapid transfer to mirth you might make a case for identifying dwarves as Oxford dons of a certain era.... grumpy, insular, proud, clannish, obsessed by their work above all things, prefering to keep their womenfolk tucked away and a distressing tendancy towards facial hair in the female of the species..... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-21-2005, 02:15 PM	#7
Guinevere Banshee of Camelot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,830	I just found an interesting thread on this topic: Ancient British cultures reflected in Middle-earth especially posts # 25 (by Rumil), #26 (by the Squatter of Amon Rûdh) and #35 (by Man of the Old Hope) are very enlightening. __________________ Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!

08-20-2005, 11:20 AM	#2
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Nope. LotR = 3rd Age = Several thousand years ago. Anglo-Saxon = 7th Age = Several centuries ago. Plus all the other stuff I don't have time to type right at the moment.

08-20-2005, 02:10 PM	#3
Alcarillo Shadow of the Past Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minas Mor-go Posts: 1,007	If any race was more Anglo-Saxon than any others it must be the Rohirrim. Tolkien showed Rohirric as Old-English, after all. An assumption based merely on runes seems to me like jumping to conclusions. We in fact do have a few words that come from Khuzdul, and they look rather alien to Old English. There's Barazinbar, Zirakzigil, Bundushathur, Buzundush, Azaghal, Azanulbizar, Mazarbul, Kibil-Nala, Sharbhund, and many other examples. We have examples of "secret" names for the petty-dwarves: Mim, Ibal. Note: I have left out diacritic marks for the sake of convenience.