The Ring bearer - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Folwren · 07-19-2005, 08:50 PM

I’ve not started a serious thread yet, I don’t think, and I’m not quite sure what all I should say and what I shouldn’t on the subject. But I want to discuss Frodo Baggins and his character...

Tolkien gives us a considerable amount of history on Frodo. More than his other hobbits. We know that Sam has a Gaffer he loves to quote and who didn’t like his interest in stories of elves and dragons, we know that Bilbo had a Mom named Beledona Took who he got a lot of his spirit from, and we know a couple things about Merry and Pippin, but not too much. However, we know that Frodo had two parents that died in a horrible boat accident on the Brandywine when he was twelve, after which he went and lived in Brandy Hall with bunches of kids, and then in that time period, or maybe before his parents died, it doesn’t say, he was in the habit of stealing mushrooms from Maggot.....the list could go on and on.

So, considering his history before his fiftieth birthday, and even considering his behavior in the first half of the Fellowship of the Ring, you can get the impression of a rather young acting, merry hobbit who loves and is full of life and can tease and be fun with the rest of them. (Well, read the beginning of Three is Company if you don’t believe me!)

But then look to the end of the trilogy...

‘I tried to save the Shire, Sam, and it has been saved, but not for me...’

The difference is absolutely astounding.

Comments on his changing, on his previous character or post character, or anything about him is welcome. My favorite hobbit is not Frodo, it being Sam, but I’ve taken quite an interest in him and anyone else’s insights would be welcome.

Turgon Philip Noldor · 07-19-2005, 09:41 PM

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Obviously the topic is how Frodo changed from when he was in the Shire (the beginning of Fellowship) to when he went back to the Shire (the end of Return). Well since you didn't ask any specific questions, I'll just give you some feed-back. I believe most of this change was due to the toil and hardship that Frodo went through on his journy. He went through so much pain that once he got back to the Shire, he still felt that pain. That is why he left. Or most of the resson.

Folwren · 07-20-2005, 07:58 AM

*sigh* I'm afraid there isn't much a question, to be sure, but I've found this a very interesting topic to consider. I'm just bringing to the surface what I've thought about Frodo and his whole history, character, and the the dramatic change that the quest brought to him, and I'm hoping other people will do the same...but if everyone thinks that it's a pointless thread, I can probably remove it, or get it removed.

mark12_30 · 07-20-2005, 08:18 AM

Before you remove it (I don't see that it's a bad thread) why don't we at least use it as a place to link to previous discussions about the changes in Frodo? There is certainly plenty to consider. I'll do a bit of searching and find a thread or two.

mark12_30 · 07-20-2005, 08:31 AM

How Much Frodo grew...

frodo was both the weakest and strongest person in the Trilogy?

Frodo or the Ring

Frodo at Sammath Naur

What caused Frodo to finally give in to the power of the Ring and claim it?

Folwren, you can either add to this thread regarding the other threads, or, add to the other threads. Since you started this thread that makes it up to you. Enjoy.

Galadriel55 · 07-06-2011, 07:57 AM

I think that Frodo was never exactly an ordinary happy-go-lucky hobbit. Maybe he was in his childhood, but we don't know too much about him in that stage of his life as a character.

Even before he got the Ring, he was more thoughful and perhaps more "deep"* than other hobbits. He learned Elvish from Bilbo. However, the change in him is still enourmous: before the story of the Ring he still felt himself a part of the Shire, and the Shire - a part of him.

I'd say that Frodo changed more than Bilbo did. Although he left partially because Bilbo left as well (so Bilbo had the bigger bulk here), the end result was different. Bilbo as learned in Elvish lore, but he was still a fully-fledged hobbit inside. Frodo was less learned, but he was less of a hobbit inside by the end of the Trilogy. In a way Bilbo is the Elvish hobbit, and Frodo is the hobbitish Elf.

*By that I don't mean to say that other hobbit characters are shallow; he was just less down-to-earth/simple.

Galadriel · 07-06-2011, 10:10 AM

Interesting. I saw a change in the burden he carried, but not much of a change in his nature. Right from the start he was much more sober than his friends, and had a tendency to be rather pessimistic and gloomy. If anything, he seemed more tired and wounded by the end of the book (wonder how that happened?

), and it really broke my heart in the last chapter when he left, but frankly, I can't help thinking that if someone like Sam or Pippin (or even Bilbo) had carried the Ring, he would not have been quite that scarred. They just seemed to radiate that kind of energy. Frodo had strength, yes, but I feel it was diminished by his pessimism.

Galadriel55 · 07-06-2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Frodo had strength, yes, but I feel it was diminished by his pessimism.

Or realism.

Merry and Pippin have some kind of barrier between their ideal inner Shire-world and the world that they got to know. I don't think Frodo ever had that ideal (almost dream-like?) inner world - he was always too, ah, realistic? Elvish? wise? for a hobbit.

Galadriel · 07-06-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Or realism.

Merry and Pippin have some kind of barrier between their ideal inner Shire-world and the world that they got to know. I don't think Frodo ever had that ideal (almost dream-like?) inner world - he was always too, ah, realistic? Elvish? wise? for a hobbit.

Not sure I agree. If that were the case, Bilbo would have faded a long time ago

So would Sam, since he was constantly around the Ring, if not wearing it around his neck.

PS – This isn't really related to the thread, but Galadriel55, I am SO sorry for not replying to that pm you sent me ages ago! I never saw it till a few days back :/

Galadriel55 · 07-06-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Not sure I agree. If that were the case, Bilbo would have faded a long time ago

So would Sam, since he was constantly around the Ring, if not wearing it around his neck.

Not Bilbo - he's a true hobbit and carries his Shire with him all the time. And Sam is too loyal to Frodo.

Quote:

PS – This isn't really related to the thread, but Galadriel55, I am SO sorry for not replying to that pm you sent me ages ago! I never saw it till a few days back :/

PM? What PM? ....wait..... Oh yeah! That one that I sent last fall!

It's kinda meaningless now...

By the way, nice avatar!

Galadriel · 07-07-2011, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Not Bilbo - he's a true hobbit and carries his Shire with him all the time. And Sam is too loyal to Frodo.

PM? What PM? ....wait..... Oh yeah! That one that I sent last fall! It's kinda meaningless now...

By the way, nice avatar!

Haha! True that! The amount of times he thinks of his home in TH is enough to fill up a page

Still, though, I don't think it's only the Shire that keeps those Hobbits going - maybe it's just their natural tendency to be frivolous, and therefore relentlessly optimistic?

And thanks!

07-19-2005, 08:50 PM	#1
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	The Ring bearer I’ve not started a serious thread yet, I don’t think, and I’m not quite sure what all I should say and what I shouldn’t on the subject. But I want to discuss Frodo Baggins and his character... Tolkien gives us a considerable amount of history on Frodo. More than his other hobbits. We know that Sam has a Gaffer he loves to quote and who didn’t like his interest in stories of elves and dragons, we know that Bilbo had a Mom named Beledona Took who he got a lot of his spirit from, and we know a couple things about Merry and Pippin, but not too much. However, we know that Frodo had two parents that died in a horrible boat accident on the Brandywine when he was twelve, after which he went and lived in Brandy Hall with bunches of kids, and then in that time period, or maybe before his parents died, it doesn’t say, he was in the habit of stealing mushrooms from Maggot.....the list could go on and on. So, considering his history before his fiftieth birthday, and even considering his behavior in the first half of the Fellowship of the Ring, you can get the impression of a rather young acting, merry hobbit who loves and is full of life and can tease and be fun with the rest of them. (Well, read the beginning of Three is Company if you don’t believe me!) But then look to the end of the trilogy... ‘I tried to save the Shire, Sam, and it has been saved, but not for me...’ The difference is absolutely astounding. Comments on his changing, on his previous character or post character, or anything about him is welcome. My favorite hobbit is not Frodo, it being Sam, but I’ve taken quite an interest in him and anyone else’s insights would be welcome. __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

07-19-2005, 09:41 PM	#2
Turgon Philip Noldor Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 32	I'm not sure what you are asking here. Obviously the topic is how Frodo changed from when he was in the Shire (the beginning of Fellowship) to when he went back to the Shire (the end of Return). Well since you didn't ask any specific questions, I'll just give you some feed-back. I believe most of this change was due to the toil and hardship that Frodo went through on his journy. He went through so much pain that once he got back to the Shire, he still felt that pain. That is why he left. Or most of the resson. __________________ "Covered by a love divine, Child of the risen Lord, To hear You say 'This ones mine', My heart is spoken for...." -MercyMe, Spoken For-

07-20-2005, 07:58 AM	#3
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	sigh I'm afraid there isn't much a question, to be sure, but I've found this a very interesting topic to consider. I'm just bringing to the surface what I've thought about Frodo and his whole history, character, and the the dramatic change that the quest brought to him, and I'm hoping other people will do the same...but if everyone thinks that it's a pointless thread, I can probably remove it, or get it removed. __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

07-20-2005, 08:18 AM	#4
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Before you remove it (I don't see that it's a bad thread) why don't we at least use it as a place to link to previous discussions about the changes in Frodo? There is certainly plenty to consider. I'll do a bit of searching and find a thread or two. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

07-20-2005, 08:31 AM	#5
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Here are a few good links. How Much Frodo grew... frodo was both the weakest and strongest person in the Trilogy? Frodo or the Ring Frodo at Sammath Naur What caused Frodo to finally give in to the power of the Ring and claim it? Folwren, you can either add to this thread regarding the other threads, or, add to the other threads. Since you started this thread that makes it up to you. Enjoy. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. Last edited by mark12_30; 07-22-2005 at 08:47 AM.

07-06-2011, 07:57 AM	#6
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	I think that Frodo was never exactly an ordinary happy-go-lucky hobbit. Maybe he was in his childhood, but we don't know too much about him in that stage of his life as a character. Even before he got the Ring, he was more thoughful and perhaps more "deep"* than other hobbits. He learned Elvish from Bilbo. However, the change in him is still enourmous: before the story of the Ring he still felt himself a part of the Shire, and the Shire - a part of him. I'd say that Frodo changed more than Bilbo did. Although he left partially because Bilbo left as well (so Bilbo had the bigger bulk here), the end result was different. Bilbo as learned in Elvish lore, but he was still a fully-fledged hobbit inside. Frodo was less learned, but he was less of a hobbit inside by the end of the Trilogy. In a way Bilbo is the Elvish hobbit, and Frodo is the hobbitish Elf. By that I don't mean to say that other hobbit characters are shallow; he was just less down-to-earth/simple. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!...* ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

07-06-2011, 10:10 AM	#7
Galadriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: In Eldamar beside the walls of Elven Tirion Posts: 551	Interesting. I saw a change in the burden he carried, but not much of a change in his nature. Right from the start he was much more sober than his friends, and had a tendency to be rather pessimistic and gloomy. If anything, he seemed more tired and wounded by the end of the book (wonder how that happened? ), and it really broke my heart in the last chapter when he left, but frankly, I can't help thinking that if someone like Sam or Pippin (or even Bilbo) had carried the Ring, he would not have been quite that scarred. They just seemed to radiate that kind of energy. Frodo had strength, yes, but I feel it was diminished by his pessimism. __________________ "Hey! Come derry dol! Can you hear me singing?" – Tom Bombadil