Could it have worked?

[The Only Real Estel]

Now that the movies are over and done with (sorry to remind you again), I have a nagging question. Spurred by Eomer's retrospective Shelob, and choice of cliffhangers thread that searches the 'what if,' I want to discuss a what if that's been thrown about a bit before - Faramir.

With all the movies and extended editions having been released, what is everyone's final opinion on Faramir? Could it have worked to make him more 'bookish'? Could they have had him resist the Ring and not totally screw the film?

I was thinking it over not long ago and thought, If they did have Faramir pass up the Ring, a good bunch of the forgetful audience is going to wonder how hard it really is to resist the Ring. But after thinking it over a bit it really wouldn't be that hard to throw in a line to deal with that. Example:

Faramir meets the hobbits, perhaps you have the tense "I could kill you, NOW" line from the books; then Faramir settles down and explains to Frodo that he would never take the Ring. They find Gollum and Frodo tricks him like in the movie (<---it's not all just chit-chat between new buddies), Faramir eventually, after not to long, sends them on their way. Now, when Pippin and Gandalf happen across Faramir in RotK and Gandalf says "Tell me everything," couldn't we stick a line in here that wouldn't insult the audience's intelligence to badly?

Example:

Cut away to the three of them in a seperate room, with Pippin mostly in a corner, more than likely.

Faramir explains that he let the hobbits and the Ring go, wanting no part of it.

Gandalf sighs in relief and says something along the lines of: "It is fortunate that you sent them on their way quickly, the longer the Ring is in your presence the harder you may find it to give It up."

Now, I'm no screenwriter, and I'm sure that that scene could be written much more eloquently than that. But wouldn't that work? It would deal with Boyens’ (screenwriter) assertion that having Faramir show a little strength of character would totally destroy the Ring's power by illustrating that no matter how 'righteous' Faramir seemed to be (or others might seem to be), the Ring could quickly corrupt good morals.

Or do you all think that I'm a disillusioned visionary and that the movie is better of the way it is? At any rate I'd love to hear your opinions and/or any other ideas on how to make it work better.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I think there probably was a way for Faramir not to be changed...and I do like your idea, but I think that perhaps there is a faction of the audience that isn't so patient as to listen to all that talking. I'm not saying that's me...but there are some people out there who don't really care to see Faramir sitting down to a chat with Frodo and Sam... and then another one with Gandalf and Pippin.

I enjoy acting, and just from an actor's standpoint, the way that the script was written for the movie is far more interesting than the book (though from a Tolkien fan's perspective, I prefer the book). There's much more of an arc and development in the movie, which makes it more fun to play...and translates into a more interesting performance onscreen for those certain people who can't appreciate just talking with very little action.

I love the books, but I appreciate that things sometimes translate differently to screen. Sometimes in order to keep things rolling, changes need to be made. PJ thought that showing Faramir as the person he was in the book would hinder the movie onscreen. I don't think he was right about the audience thinking that the Ring had lost its power, but perhaps the scriptwriters had come out with some drafts of Faramir being unchanged, and then they were rejected as not conveying the power properly or as slowing things down. There is a group of fans who are not true fans of the book and are just in it for action, and they may have been bored by all the talking that would ensue.

I don't mean to sound like I'm using all that as an excuse to validate the change. I was just as thrown by it as the next Tolkien fan, and I still prefer the book version. It's just that there were many elements to consider.

[Imladris]

Or, during the time used to shoot Faramir bringing Frodo to Osgiliath, he could have used the time to show the lure of the Ring briefly and efficiently, without too much added dialogue.

In fact, PJ sort of touched on this when Faramir first saw the Ring...except it should have been bigger in a more subtle way. If that makes any sense. Basically the music would have been the driving force...tense, powerful, dark, etc. Then maybe there could have been a "flash-back-esque" scene showing Faramir bearing the Ring and leading Gondor to victory, afterward showing him falling to darkness...

After this scene, it would cut back to Frodo and Sam and Faramir letting them go. To my mind, something like this would have been much better than what PJ decided to do.

But even so, Faramir's change doesn't bother me nearly as much as it did before. Some things have to be changed, and I for one do not have movie making experiences...all I can say is what would have been cool to happen, not what would have been best.

[Kath]

The change of Faramir annoys me intensely as he was a favourite from the books due to his noble actions and his similarity (in my mind) to Aragorn.

I can see why they changed him, for a more intense storyline it did work well, but I still don't like it. Imladris' idea of a flash-forward scene would have worked wonderfully. It would have shown again the power of the Ring and given the audience a respect for Faramir that he could see the evil inherent in the Ring and so let Frodo and Sam go. There would be no need to cut out any of the preceeding scenes such as the attack or the capture of Gollum, this could still be how Faramir discovers that they have it.

Any budding film-makers around who want to give that a try .

[The Only Real Estel]

Posted by Imladris:

But even so, Faramir's change doesn't bother me nearly as much as it did before.

I agree with you here.

Posted by AW:

I think there probably was a way for Faramir not to be changed...and I do like your idea, but I think that perhaps there is a faction of the audience that isn't so patient as to listen to all that talking. I'm not saying that's me...but there are some people out there who don't really care to see Faramir sitting down to a chat with Frodo and Sam... and then another one with Gandalf and Pippin.

Good point. I'm sure the audience would get tired if there were a couple of longish scenes of just talking. But I'd say if we snuck the Faramir comment in while he was already talking to the hobbits in the cave it wouldn't make it to much longer. And the Gandalf/Faramir scene wouldn't be very long at all, basically only long enough to say what I suggested. But I'm sure the movie goers would get bored quickly if those scenes dragged.

Posted by Imladris:

In fact, PJ sort of touched on this when Faramir first saw the Ring...except it should have been bigger in a more subtle way. If that makes any sense. Basically the music would have been the driving force...tense, powerful, dark, etc. Then maybe there could have been a "flash-back-esque" scene showing Faramir bearing the Ring and leading Gondor to victory, afterward showing him falling to darkness...

That sounds like an awesome idea to me, it would also help any attentive members of the audience to see what Boromir was imagining before his bad choice and untimely death.

[Gurthang]

Man, that does sound like a great idea. I would love to see that. There are already some good thoughts posted here, so let me just add:

Initially, I hated the movie Faramir. The first time I saw RotK in theatres, I thought it made him out to be a bad guy. The EE helped a lot, yet he still seemed to have weak character, and that's what I didn't like. Yet the part that still bothers me the most is that meaningless trek to Osgiliath. If you take that out, you could get both Estel's idea and Imladris's flash-forward in with plenty of room to spare. I don't know, maybe those ideas wouldn't have worked (I don't see why!) but I just wish we could take Osgiliath out of the picture!

Oh, and I wouldn't mind not seeing that brutal scene with Gollum again. The one where Faramir watches two of his men beat Smeagol. And then that bizarre exchange of words between them, well, actually I thought that was kinda *cough* funny, but, ehem. But the beating made Faramir look cruel and really made me not like him.