Old Tom bombadil is a...?!?!

[the guy who be short]

For Ages, the debate has raged across the continent of The Downs. Alliances have arisen and crumbled, new ideas swilling around like mouthwash in the caverns of a Giant's mouth. Brother and Sister have betrayed one another and-

Enough theatrics. I was bored.

This thread is to discuss the question of Tom Bombadil. What, actually, was he? A representation of Arda? A Maia? A weird bloke? Somebody irrelevant but dear to Tolkien?

All these ideas have been presented at some point, and discredited as ridiculous by advocates of all the others.

Here, in this thread, we will hold a showdown. The Truth shall be unfurled. Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the Greatest thing in Barrow Downs history...


So what was Tom Bombadil? Please post your ideas. For myself, I have come to a logical conclusion which (I hope) none can deny.

Tom Bombadil was a modern-day master sprinter transported back in time to the Third Age by some weird warp in time-space. And I have evidence!

Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow

Why so Merry? Plainly, he has just got back from winning a race.

Bright blue his jacket is

This refers to those vest-thingies athletes have to wear. You know, the ones with weird numbers on.

And his boots are yellow

Trademark footwear for a master sprinter.

None has ever caught him yet

He's just that fast!

His songs are stronger songs

This is symbolic. His songs, here, represent his urge to win; a much stronger will than any other sprinters could hope to achieve. Could also be a reference to singing after winning.

And his feet are faster

Duh.

There is extensive further evidence, but I doubt any will require it. The Truth is plain!


Please post your own theories about Old Bombadillo.

[Formendacil]

I believe that the truth of the matter is that Tom Bombadil is a "Merry" fellow. In other words, he is most obviously Merry's alter ego.

After all, it was Merry who led the Hobbits into the Old Forest. Merry had "disappeared" (they say he was in the willow, but we only have Pippin's word for it- the Fool of a Took). Thereafter, in the House of Thomas Meriadoc Brandywine-Bombadil, we are given no scenes of Merry and Tom directly interactly. I would theorise that Merry's accomplice Goldberry (aka Estella Bolger- also known as Fatty*) used some rather potent brews to confuse the Hobbit's minds and make them think that Merry was with them as well as Tom.

Now, it must be obvious therefore that Estella was again playing a covert role when Merry, Pippin, and Sam are captured by the Barrow-Wight, since Merry ole Tom shows up not long after to save the day.

Finally, at the edge of the Old Forest, under the cover of dusk, Merry and Estella again trade places, so that Goldberry/Estella/Fatty remains behind (and gives word to Gandalf) while Merry continues on.

Obviously, this was the whole reason that Merry goes on the quest, so that Tom Bombadil can face and defeat the Witchking. One may ask why he didn't do it at Weathertop, but the answer is that he was still being affected by lingering effects of the Prancing Pony's ale. Besides, he didn't want to blow his cover.

Gandalf obviously knew about this, which is why he was so adamant that the Ring be destroyed and not sent to Tom. After all, Tom was right there with them. Furthermore, at the end of the story, when Gandalf disappears to "visit Tom", the reason we are never shown the scene is that it never happened- Gandalf was actually visiting Estella, who, as Fatty, was actually in the Lockholes at that time. Hence, Gandalf was actually helping to save the Shire, not just buggering off leaving the responsibility to Pippin and Sam.

There you have it. Tom Bombadil is Merry Brandybuck with boots and a beard.

*That Fatty is actually Estella may be easily shown by the fact that Fatty is never referred to by Fredegar. Besides, why do you think that Merry went ahead with "Fatty" instead of hanging out with his closer chums Frodo and Pippin?

[Gurthang]

There is but one conclusion that can be drawn. Only one. Evidence clearly shows that Tom is none other than Sauron himself! I shall explain.

Clearly, if Tom was Merry or a famous runner, both mortal, he would have disappeared under the Ring's dreadful power. Yet the fact that he did not vanish points out that he was not mortal, cancelling out any possibilities of Merry or a futuristic fasty.Also, upon wearing the Ring, Bombadil exhibited no desire whatsoever to keep it from Frodo, a feat Gandalf did not even attempt! The Ring had no power over Tom, because Tom was truly its maker.

Now, you're thinking, 'if it was Sauron, he would have taken the Ring right then'. But no, he would not. He was in a weak state(due to lack-of-Ring-itus), and would need time to recover from his illness. Even taking back the Ring, he would have been enormously defenseless during his long trek home. He foresaw that they would bring the Ring closer to him, and he let them do so.

Now he was there mostly for recon work, and for his longing to hold his Precious, if for only a time. Once he was certain that the Ring would be taken somewhere(as opposed to thrown into the sea) he was satisfied to watch. At this time he also pointed his Nazgul directly to the Ring. This is why they caught up to the Hobbits at Bree, very soon after their separation from Tom.

This case is solved, Bombadil was Sauron.

[Meneltarmacil]

The arguments for Tom being Sauron are interesting, but a different interpretation would probably be warranted in this case. Sauron really would not have been in much danger on the way south, as the Nazgul would have protected him adequately. No, Tom probably represents someone else, close to Sauron but not quite.

Let's look at the facts:

-Unaffected by the Ring but not interested in it

-Trying very hard to seem unnoticed

-Does not really fit in with the rest of the world

-Mysterious origins that he does not want to talk about

-Helps Frodo on his way

-Has power over the Barrow-Wight, along with other mysterious abilities

All this seems to show that Tom is trying very hard to hide his true nature and powers and to keep well out of the way of anyone until the time is right. Therefore, I propose that Tom is really Morgoth. If anyone were to learn that he had escaped from the Void, the Valar would soon come and lock him up again. So he pretends to be a good person and hides much of his power. He does not have access to his former resources, and knows that Sauron, now interested only in himself, would betray him if he asked for help. Morgoth needs to get Sauron out of the way and then assume command of the armies of Mordor before starting a new reign of darkness. That is why he allows Frodo to continue safely on his way with the Ring.

[the guy who be short]

Ah! I just remembered about this! The Subconscious works in strange ways...

For those interested, a very strong case for the Witch-King of Angmar and Tom being the same person is presented on the site.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ah yes, I seem to remember making a hash of a presentation of that argument a few years back and being brutalised (completely fairly) by none other than burrahobbit! It still lies somewhere on the Downs...

'Tis a brilliant site tgwbs.

But on topic: I had always thought that the House of Tom Bombadil was a dream. As we know the Hobbits were trapped by the Barrow-wight in the Downs. They were put to sleep; so it seems clear to me that the shenanigans did not actually happen in reality. I mean, Tom Bombadil and Goldberry do not make sense! Wild nightmares are the obvious answer.

As for Fatty Lumpkin, I imagine the Hobbits just found him in a field somewhere.

I was looking at some of the other forums regarding the LOTR and discovered one post that is particularly interesting:-

Tom Bombadil and the Witch-king of Angmar are the same person.

DISCUSS

Arguments:

1. We never hear of Tom at all during the whole of the First Age. The Nine Rings aren't forged until the Second Age. QED.

2. You never see the two of them together.

3. In the first part of Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgul are sent to the Shire to look for the wandering Baggins. Interestingly, Tom says to Frodo at the dinner-table: "...I was waiting for you. We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering... But Tom had an errand there, that he dared not hinder" (Fellowship p.137 hardback, emphasis mine: note the fear Tom has of his master, Sauron!).

4. In Tom's questioning of the Hobbits, JRRT notes that "there was a glint in his eyes when he heard of the Riders." (Fellowship p. 144) I think he was concerned that his double-life might have been noticed. Interestingly, Tom immediately changes the subject of conversation!
Furthermore, the One Ring had no effect on Tom - which seems consistent with Tolkien's observations about how the Nazgul would have handled the same priceless object (Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #246): "They were... in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring."

5. It's also interesting to note that Tom could see Frodo clearly while Frodo was wearing the Ring (Fellowship p. 144 hardback) - just as the Witch-king could see Frodo clearly while he was wearing the Ring at Weathertop! (Fellowship p. 208 hardback)

6. Perhaps most damning, however, is the incident with the Barrow-wights (Fellowship pp. 151-155), where Tom - with nothing more than a few simple words (p. 154) - commands the Barrow-wight to leave. And it does, without argument. Why would the Wight be so completely under Tom's control? Because in his alternate guise as the Witch-king of Angmar, Tom ordered the Wight to inhabit the barrow in the first place! Turning to Return of the King, Appendix A, p. 321, "evil spirits out of Angmar... entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there." Obviously the Witch-king was reponsible for sending the wights there; just as obviously, the Witch-king (disguised as Tom) would be capable of ordering them to leave!
(This is related to another passage, which has since been brought to my attention. On Fellowship page 158 hardback, Tom is guiding the Hobbits back towards the Road when he gazes towards the borders of Cardolan. "Tom said that it had once been the boundary of a kingdom, but a very long time ago. He seemed to remember something sad about it, and would not say much." Since Tom, as the Witch-king, was the one who destroyed the kingdom of Cardolan, it's little wonder that he wouldn't say much about his involvement. Perhaps his remembering "something sad" reveals some remorse at being the instrument of Cardolan's destruction...?)

...Yep: I think we have an airtight case here.

...It's worth noting that, after the Witch-king was dead, Gandalf said he was "going to have a long talk with Bombadil" (Return of the King, p. 275). Curiously, he never tells anyone about the meeting later... and he's right there at the Grey Havens at the end of the book, undelayed it seems by long conversation. I think we can therefore theorize that Gandalf made it to the Old Forest, but that Tom (once the so-called "Witch-king" had died) was nowhere to be found!

...Of course, all this brings up the curiosity of motive. What would make the Witch-King of Angmar sport such a double identity? I suppose that the Witch-king, once of proud Numenorean ancestry, felt trapped by the guise of evil which Sauron had tricked him into, and in the fullness of time forged this alternate identity for himself so that he could occasionally feel happy, helpful, noble, and more at one with himself and his lineage. The situation is perhaps analagous to a crossdresser who, feeling trapped in a man's body, would occasionally assume the identity of a woman. It therefore makes sense that the Witch-king's other identity would be so peculiarly enigmatic, and perhaps sheds light on JRRT's observation in Letters #144: "And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)."

...Who else would be aware of Tom's double-life, I wonder? Since Tom repeatedly claims to have been around "before the river and the trees", and indeed even claims to be older than the Ents (Fellowship p. 142), surely the eldest of the Elves would know he was lying. Elrond plays along with Tom in public, being kind enough not to reveal his secret, but also seems to know that Tom and the Witch-king are one and the same; hence his refusal to give the Ring to Tom for safekeeping (Fellowship p. 278-9): "Power to defy the Enemy is not in him."

[Essex]

Of course he had the Ring in his possesion, but then gave it back to Frodo!

Doh!!!!!!!



(although I am, in this reply, disregarding your penultimate paragraph)

but sorry, I remember reading a similar thread before on another forum a few years back, it doesn't ring true to me, although it's funny someone else has thought of it............

I am intrigued as to whether old Bombadil could work as two persons, whilst of course not revealing this secret. Obviously there are some others who will shed more light on the true nature of Bombadil to counter this possibility.

[alatar]

Mansun, as seemingly as airtight as your argument appears, I would have to respectfully disagree. I have information that I was not to divulge, but in order to clear the Witch-King's good name, I am forced to come clean.

Tom Bombadil is none other than Starship Captain James Tiberius Kirk.

That should be obvious to everyone, but for those that require additional proof:

• You never see Bombadil and Kirk together, even at various science fiction/fantasy conventions.

• "...I was waiting for you. We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering... But Tom had an errand there, that he dared not hinder"- Kirk's tricorder probably picked up the approaching Hobbits as 'life forms,' and Kirk was disappointed that he could not blast them with his phaser. And Kirk would pick lilies from a stream if it would get him closer to a woman.

• "there was a glint in his eyes when he heard of the Riders." Kirk was notorious for getting into fights, and these so-called Riders might fight the bill. Plus, Kirk liked horses, and sometimes horses and/or bad guys on horses meant 'damsel in distress,' a pheromone that Kirk could not resist.

• Kirk was not affected by the Ring as his ego is of galactic proportions; some critics have suggested that the Captain has "delusions of godhood." Battling supernatural and godlike beings in a contest of wills (not wits, mind you) was a daily experience for Kirk. To think that the Ring could do anything to him...ha. And Kirk was such an egomaniac prima donna that nothing, absolutely nothing could make him leave center stage, let alone make him become invisible.

• And Kirk's power over the Barrow wights is easily explained. Anyone familiar with the Captain knows that he is prone to monologuing - making grandiose speechs that left his enemies in tears and his fellow crewpersons ready to sacrifice themselves just so that they wouldn't have to hear anymore. The death scream of the wight is proof of Kirk's speaking abilities. And note that he lifted a necklace from the pile on the hill to, yet again, get in good with Goldberry.

• And the yellow boots are a dead giveaway - the Captain's uniform is gold/yellow.

And just who do you think that the Blue Wizards, Pallando and I , were sent to retrieve?

This is Spock...I mean uhh...alatar... out.

[Meneltarmacil]

As these are not very serious suggestions, Middle-Earth Mirth is probably the best place to be discussing them, and they'd probably belong on this thread.

Though I did like the Star Trek idea...

Originally Posted by alatar

Mansun, as seemingly as airtight as your argument appears, I would have to respectfully disagree.

Alatar, these Bombadil/WK comparisons were made by somebody else (not me!) from another Forum, yet they are still interesting if what somewhat bizarre. Nobody can dent that Bombadil is the strangest of all the ME characters, so much that one might question whether Tolkein was right to include him in the LOTR at all, since he plays little or no part in the vast majority of the story, unless that he DOES play another person at the same time.

Originally Posted by alatar

The yellow boots are a dead giveaway - the Captain's uniform is gold/yellow.

I suppose you meant these yellow wellies here! Old Bombadil must have made them himself lol.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

I have information that I was not to divulge, but in order to clear the Witch-King's good name, I am forced to come clean.

Tom Bombadil is none other than Starship Captain James Tiberius Kirk.

That should be obvious to everyone, but for those that require additional proof:

. . . .

This is Spock...I mean uhh...alatar... out.

I think the clincher lies in obvious subterfuge between Goldberry and the many roles Mrs. "Roddenberry" played. *coughs*

[Durelin]

*imagines The Witch King donning yellow boots*

It all makes sense now...

I've always felt like there's a bigger separation between good and evil in Middle-earth.

I think we can gain one lesson about Tom Bombadil from this: he had all the powers of the Witch King without the inconvenience of servitude to an evil master, being 'undead', and a ring.