Outrage? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kath · 06-14-2005, 07:23 AM

I was looking through some of the posts on this site and I noticed that many of the signatures seem to show that quite a few of the members are Christians.

I had also just been reading Harry Potter and remembered that when it came out, and now, it had been banned in many churches and church schools because it was condoning witchcraft and other things that went against church teachings.

I was just wondering whether The Lord of the Rings received this type of response when it was published, as it contains many of the same elements (think Dementors/Nazgul and so on, you can do it for most of the book).

If anyone knows (or can remember

) please post here!

Kitanna · 06-14-2005, 07:48 AM

I don't think it was, but let me check to be sure....

*after a useless google search* It doesn't look like it probably because LOTR had such a large religious backdrop. A lot of events and people mirror Bible events. I mean the last battle of good and evil, the return of the king...
So who's going to ban a book if the author devotely followed their religion?
But that's just me, if anyone can find proof of the books being banned I'd love to see it. Should be quite interesting.

mormegil · 06-14-2005, 08:02 AM

I don't believe that LotR's caused the same outcry from cetain groups as Harry Potter did. The major difference between the two is the use of magic. While "magic" exist in Middle-Earth it is not the same type of magic that is used in Harry Potter. The certain Christian groups that found Harry Potter so offensive claimed that it encouraged witchcraft and wizardry, both of which are forbidden.

So the analogy between Nazgul and Dementors while not in itself perfect, is not the cause of the outrage of Harry Potter. It is more based on the fact of the use of magic and magic wands and giving children the idea that it's okay to use magic. I think, myself, that they are a bit off but to each his own.

Boromir88 · 06-14-2005, 08:05 AM

I don't think it caused the rage that Harry Potter did as well. If anything I think the Christian faith imbraced it. Since, they see a lot of Tolkien's stories being connected to their own faith. Why a couple months ago my pastor used a part of LOTR in his sermon to show how it connected with Mary and Joseph. I'll see if I can find the old thread.

Edit: Ahh here it is.

Anguirel · 06-14-2005, 08:27 AM

We must also consider that when Lord of the Rings was published, the world, and the Christian community, were very different. People weren't so inclined to break into hysterics, lose their heads and shriek over a book written for entertainment of its readership.

Nor were Tolkien's the first books containing enchantment, and what we now odiously call "fantasy". Kipling, E Nesbit, Dickens, Williams, and of course CS Lewis had dabbled or were dabbling in these realms.

The post-war era was a nervous age, but it was concerned about politics, and the overhanging sceptre of communism. The Lord of the Rings provided an escape from these aspects of life; where it touched on political matters it was traditional, English, Monarchist, ecumenical and reassurring, even reactionary in the Scouring of the Shire. That's why it appealed to the reactionary elements of the Hippy movement.

Today, sadly, though democracy is generally recognised as a Good Thing, religious extremism is our new bogey man, the new Ring, the new Dark Lord, if you like. Just as Sauron's imminence made Denethor into a hard and harsh man, the terrorism of Islamic extremism has brought into being disturbingly similar feelings in Christianity. Why, it's enough for a whole other thread. "You serve the Dark Tower or the White." "You're with us or against us."

It is in these circumstances that certain people or groups have been stirred up into vitriolic hatred against a perfectly innocent, unpretentious series of books for children, one of a vast genre heavily influenced by Tolkien, and only distinguished from the rest of that genre by its extraordinary success. It is not fair to say that the Christian community as a whole, in any case, frowns on JK Rowling. The late Pope John-Paul II himself, hardly wishy-washy in such matters, defended her.

Had the Lord of the Rings been published today, I think, sadly, a similar backlash by the narrow-minded, few of whom deign to read the books they detest, would have been more than likely.

**The Saucepan Man** · 06-14-2005, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kath

I was just wondering whether The Lord of the Rings received this type of response when it was published ...

Well, it certainly has since. I understand that it has been (or was) banned in some schools in the US, and it has also attracted some criticism from those who condemn it for portraying occultism.

Some relevant threads:

LOTR banned!!!!!

Banning Tolkien, some questions

I don't believe this

Check out the link given in the first post of the last thread linked to above for a (rather deranged) analysis of LotR as a manifestation of Satan's work.

06-14-2005, 07:23 AM	#1
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	Outrage? I was looking through some of the posts on this site and I noticed that many of the signatures seem to show that quite a few of the members are Christians. I had also just been reading Harry Potter and remembered that when it came out, and now, it had been banned in many churches and church schools because it was condoning witchcraft and other things that went against church teachings. I was just wondering whether The Lord of the Rings received this type of response when it was published, as it contains many of the same elements (think Dementors/Nazgul and so on, you can do it for most of the book). If anyone knows (or can remember ) please post here! __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

06-14-2005, 07:48 AM	#2
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	I don't think it was, but let me check to be sure.... after a useless google search It doesn't look like it probably because LOTR had such a large religious backdrop. A lot of events and people mirror Bible events. I mean the last battle of good and evil, the return of the king... So who's going to ban a book if the author devotely followed their religion? But that's just me, if anyone can find proof of the books being banned I'd love to see it. Should be quite interesting. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

06-14-2005, 08:02 AM	#3
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,648	I don't believe that LotR's caused the same outcry from cetain groups as Harry Potter did. The major difference between the two is the use of magic. While "magic" exist in Middle-Earth it is not the same type of magic that is used in Harry Potter. The certain Christian groups that found Harry Potter so offensive claimed that it encouraged witchcraft and wizardry, both of which are forbidden. So the analogy between Nazgul and Dementors while not in itself perfect, is not the cause of the outrage of Harry Potter. It is more based on the fact of the use of magic and magic wands and giving children the idea that it's okay to use magic. I think, myself, that they are a bit off but to each his own. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

06-14-2005, 08:05 AM	#4
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,518	I don't think it caused the rage that Harry Potter did as well. If anything I think the Christian faith imbraced it. Since, they see a lot of Tolkien's stories being connected to their own faith. Why a couple months ago my pastor used a part of LOTR in his sermon to show how it connected with Mary and Joseph. I'll see if I can find the old thread. Edit: Ahh here it is. __________________ Fenris Penguin Last edited by Boromir88; 06-14-2005 at 08:12 AM.

06-14-2005, 08:27 AM	#5
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	We must also consider that when Lord of the Rings was published, the world, and the Christian community, were very different. People weren't so inclined to break into hysterics, lose their heads and shriek over a book written for entertainment of its readership. Nor were Tolkien's the first books containing enchantment, and what we now odiously call "fantasy". Kipling, E Nesbit, Dickens, Williams, and of course CS Lewis had dabbled or were dabbling in these realms. The post-war era was a nervous age, but it was concerned about politics, and the overhanging sceptre of communism. The Lord of the Rings provided an escape from these aspects of life; where it touched on political matters it was traditional, English, Monarchist, ecumenical and reassurring, even reactionary in the Scouring of the Shire. That's why it appealed to the reactionary elements of the Hippy movement. Today, sadly, though democracy is generally recognised as a Good Thing, religious extremism is our new bogey man, the new Ring, the new Dark Lord, if you like. Just as Sauron's imminence made Denethor into a hard and harsh man, the terrorism of Islamic extremism has brought into being disturbingly similar feelings in Christianity. Why, it's enough for a whole other thread. "You serve the Dark Tower or the White." "You're with us or against us." It is in these circumstances that certain people or groups have been stirred up into vitriolic hatred against a perfectly innocent, unpretentious series of books for children, one of a vast genre heavily influenced by Tolkien, and only distinguished from the rest of that genre by its extraordinary success. It is not fair to say that the Christian community as a whole, in any case, frowns on JK Rowling. The late Pope John-Paul II himself, hardly wishy-washy in such matters, defended her. Had the Lord of the Rings been published today, I think, sadly, a similar backlash by the narrow-minded, few of whom deign to read the books they detest, would have been more than likely. __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso