LotR -- Book 3 - Chapter 11 - The Palantír

[Estelyn Telcontar]

This chapter closes Book 3 and ends the telling of this strand of the story. We leave Isengard with the Riders and Fellowship, and as the title suggests, the most important part is centered on Pippin, Gandalf and the Palantír.

What sparks Pippin’s restlessness? Is the stone itself working on him, is it just his inquisitive nature, or which other factors could be at the root of his wish to look into the stone? Did Saruman’s voice have an effect on him? Why Pippin and not Merry? This is one of the chapters that shows the difference between the two hobbits who have been together up till now and are perhaps difficult to discern from one another unless one reads carefully. Would Merry have reacted differently? Aragorn warns him against thinking so later in the chapter, but he does appear more cautious.

Though Pippin did wrong in taking the Palantír and looking into it, we find that good came of it; it saved Gandalf from temptation. There was no real harm done, and it seems to have had no further repercussions later on – or did it? Was this an experience that was important to Pippin’s maturing process?

We find out that Aragorn has a right to the Palantír, and Gandalf acknowledges his kingship in giving it to him.

The rather leisurely pace of events is quickened by the appearance of the flying Nazgûl, giving the story a sense of urgency just before it is paused.

It’s been awhile since there was poetry in a chapter; it doesn’t seem compatible with battles and action. We do have a few lines quoted by Gandalf in connection with the Palantír. Though they are brief, I find them very compelling.

It is chilling to hear Gandalf say, “There is nothing that Sauron cannot turn to evil uses.” The Palantíri were great and wonderful artefacts or devices, made by the Elves – is there a definite statement about their originating from Fëanor in one of the other works, Sil or UT? Innate power/authority/right (of ownership?) is vital to the ability to use them at any rate, as Gandalf says: “Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.”

One of my very favorite quotes comes from this chapter; it was my first signature way back in my early days on this forum:

‘Mercy!’ cried Gandalf. ‘If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?’
‘The names of all the stars, and of all living things, and the whole history of Middle-earth and Over-heaven and of the Sundering Seas,’ laughed Pippin. ‘Of course! What less? But I am not in a hurry tonight…’

Doesn’t that sound like a Tolkien geek nowadays?!

The close of the chapter is wonderfully evocative:

…Pippin had a strange feeling: he and Gandalf were still as stone, seated upon the statue of a running horse, while the world rolled away beneath his feet with a great noise of wind.

[Regin Hardhammer]

Several weeks ago we completed a Shire rpg dealing with the recovery of two of the lost Palantiri. While the story was fictional, it was based on historical data, especially that of UT. Here is the beginning of the prologue.

The palantiri, or Seeing Stones, were fashioned by the Noldor, probably by Feanor. The Elves presented seven of these to Amandil as leader of the Faithful in the Second Age. The palantíri were crystal globes of power, black in color, that a person of strong will could use to communicate thoughts with someone using a similar stone or to see things from anywhere in the past or present. In the hands of a good ruler, the Stones were important tools for communication, but they were also capable of abuse. The evil ruler with a strong will could use the Stones for spying and domination. Sauron, for instance, projected images of despair in the Anor-stone to manipulate and destroy Denethor’s mind. There is even some indication that using the Stones, like the Ring itself, could be addictive to its owner, especially if misused.

Here is the link for the rest of it.

The Seeing Stones: Prologue

I think you've got to have some understanding of what the Stones were to be able to understand and interpret Pippin's response.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

What sparks Pippin’s restlessness? Is the stone itself working on him, is it just his inquisitive nature, or which other factors could be at the root of his wish to look into the stone? Did Saruman’s voice have an effect on him? Why Pippin and not Merry? ........ Though Pippin did wrong in taking the Palantír and looking into it, we find that good came of it; it saved Gandalf from temptation. There was no real harm done, and it seems to have had no further repercussions later on – or did it?

These comments, and some similar ones in the last chapter have got me thinking. Was Pippin DESTINED to look into the Palantír?

Let's ignore for a moment the issues pertaining to freewill, and look at the other side of the coin.

First of all, it proved extremely providential that it was Pippin that looked into the Palantír. By doing so, he saved Gandalf from a contest with Sauron, one that Gandalf was anxious not to have. In doing so he provided Gandalf with valuable information concerning Saruman's ties to Mordor, before only guessed at. And he initiated some valuable misinformation, directed at the Eye.

Who knows what sort of things may have gone wrong if Gandalf had looked into the Palantír?

Then there's Pippin's extreme attraction to the Palantír. Is this normal? No one else seems to be affected by it in such an irrational way. True, Pippin handled it, but that was it. At least in the case of Denethor he used it many times. And neither Denethor nor Saruman seem to have become ADDICTED to it, although they both came to dominated by it. Or did they? Technically, it was Sauron using the Palantir that dominated them.

So could this attraction of Pippin's be a form of divine intervention? Akin to Frodo's being "meant to carry the Ring"? Of course, this skirts about the issue of free will. One could argue, of course, that Pippin wasn't FORCED to use the Palantír, but that he chose to, influenced of course by divine influence.

Which then begs another question be asked: would the divine intervene through an illegal means? Because Pippin had no right to use the Palantír. The Stone belonged to the King of Gondor (Aragorn), and those designated to act in his stead. Whatever else Denethor may have done wrong, his position as Steward gave him the authority to use the Stone, if not the wisdom not to. Pippin had no such right.

Anyway, those are the questions that I thought up.

[davem]

First thoughts:

Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.

"But I should like to know--' Pippin began.

'Mercy!" cried Gandalf. "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?"

"The names of all the stars, and of all living things, and the whole history of Middle-earth and Over-heaven and of the Sundering Seas," laughed Pippin. 'Of course! What less?”

Perhaps these quotes sum up the whole of this chapter. The Palantiri are dangerous things because they were the products of greater minds. Simply, Saruman was not smart enough - he didn’t understand what he was playing with:

"Then it was not made, not made'--Pippin hesitated--'by the Enemy?" 'No," said Gandalf. 'Nor by Saruman. It is beyond his art, and beyond Sauron's too. The palantiri come from beyond Westernesse, from Eldamar. The Noldor made them. Feanor himself, maybe, wrought them, in days so long ago that the time cannot be measured in years. But there is nothing that Sauron cannot turn to evil uses. Alas for Saruman! It was his downfall, as I now perceive.

And neither did Denethor (or Pippin).

On the surface it would seem that Saruman’s & Denethor’s reasons are different from Pippin’s. Yet all three were seeking knowledge. Pippin isn’t driven by a desire to know the mind of Sauron, or to defend his people against the enemy’s onslaught, certainly, but he is seeking to increase his knowledge of the world. We’re given a very clear insight into Pipin’s character here - he’s driven by curiosity above all things. He wants to know how things work, where they came from, their names & their nature. Then how is he different from Saruman? Well principally, he doesn’t seek that knowledge for reasons of power or self aggrandisement. He simply wants to know & understand the world he lives in. Saruman wants to control the world. I think this is summed up in their approach to the Palantir itself. Pippin simply wants to know what it is. Saruman wants to use it. For Saruman it is a means to an end, for Pippin it is an end in itself.

So much for motives; the consequence of using the Palantir seems to be the same in each case. Saruman, Denethor & Pippin look into the stone & sooner or later (or instantly) they are caught by Sauron. But here again there is a difference. Saruman & Denethor are caught & held, Pippin is caught & breaks free - with Gandalf’s aid & this is significant I think, because Gandalf offers that same aid to both Saruman & Denethor, but they reject it. I wonder if this has to do with the three’s motives for looking into it in the first place. Saruman & Denethor use ‘their’ Palantirs in an attempt to make themselves more powerful, they are driven by egotism - Denethor may wish Minas Tirith to be saved, but he wants to be the one to do it. Pippin, on the other hand, is driven only by an insatiable curiosity about the world he lives in. Saruman & Denethor would have to humble themselves & admit they were less strong, less wise, than they believed themsleves to be, Pippin only has to admit he was a bit stupid...

[Mithalwen]

I think that this incident is one of those wonderful moments where something essential to the plot is nevertheless completely in character for the person who does it. I think in the circumstances it was inevitable that Pippin would want to have a look, also that he was much more vulnerable to this temptation than Merry.

Pippin's style is to do first and think later if necessary, he chucks stones down wells just because there is a stone and a well and he is curious .. . This does not always casue harm - it is the same part of his nature that guides him to leave the traces that Aragorn will find.

Although in many ways they are a "pair" , Merry is more of a thinker, he does not rush in so much. He was the mastermind of the conspiracy, he thought to research their journey in Rivendell whereas Pippin clearly assumed there would always be someone to take care of him. For so much of the time he has been almost "going along for the ride", this is a crucial point for him, he has to grow up and separate from the older Merry who has been in a bit of an "older brother " role. When they meet again, it wil be Pippin who is in the protecting role.

This is also one of those interesting points when a "wrong" action is crucial.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Pippin's style is to do first and think later if necessary, he chucks stones down wells just because there is a stone and a well and he is curious .. . This does not always casue harm - it is the same part of his nature that guides him to leave the traces that Aragorn will find.

Pippin does remind me of Perceval in the Grail Quest. He is the innocent 'child' who acts before he thinks. Its almost as if he (have I said this before?) has a deep trust in the Universe, & that life is a 'game' to be enjoyed, so he doesn't have to worry too much & he can play happily. Even when he feels his life is over, in the battle before the Black Gates:

Then Pippin stabbed upwards, and the written blade of Westernesse pierced through the hide and went deep into the vitals of the troll, and his black blood came gushing out. He toppled forward and came crashing down like a falling rock, burying those beneath him. Blackness and stench and crushing pain came upon Pippin, and his mind fell away into a great darkness. 'So it ends as I guessed it would,' his thought said, even as it fluttered away; and it laughed a little within him ere it fled, almost gay it seemed to be casting off at last all doubt and care and fear. And then even as it winged away into forgetfulness it heard voices, and they seemed to be crying in some forgotten world far above: 'The Eagles are coming! The Eagles are coming!' For one moment more Pippin's thought hovered. 'Bilbo!' It said. 'But no! That came in his tale, long long ago. This is my tale, and it is ended now. Good-bye!' And his thought fled far away and his eyes saw no more.

He reminds me of no-one so much as the Fool on Tarot, stepping off the edge of a cliff without realising because he is distracted by a brightly coloured butterfly fluttering in front of him. He feels perfectly safe, no matter what happens to him because its all a jolly big adventure & nothing really unpleasant can happen to him after all.

But that said, he does a little growing up, becomes more serious, throughout the tale - yet he never grows up entirely. He never loses his childlike innocence. He grows up just enough to be useful to his fellow creatures, rather than remaining a nuisance who needs looking after & who keeps getting in the way.

Perhaps he was 'chosen' - by 'fate' or Eru - to look into the Palantir, but if that is the case it must be because he was the one who would take the least hurt in doing so. Pippin was the one who could be trusted to come face to face with Sauron & come away, if not unchanged by the experience, then certainly with the capacity to smile again.

[Mithalwen]

I find it interesting (and a little spooky ) that you quote that passage since, prompted by Bethberry, I took a look at the other "book" endings - and of course that is one. Pippin again...... It occurs to me that while Frodo is officially Bilbo's heir financially and a s ringbearer, Pippin is Bilbo's heir in temperament - Pippin is much more like the Bilbo of the Hobbit where his "Tookish element" is in the fore. Both are caught up in journeys of which they do not fully appreciate the significance, both are impulsive, observant & loyal to their friends. Bilbo who could not resist the Arkenstone would not have resisted the Palantir either....

[Bêthberry]

Kudos once again to Estelyn for providing an excellent introduction to our discussion. The Princess is tenacious as well!

That is a very timely link, Regin Hardhammer. It shows how role plays can provide interpretations of the books and not simply be fanciful fan recreations of Middle earth. (not meaning to raise any ire with that statement)

I like Formendacil's way of considering Pippin's peek into the Palantir. It is a fortuitous fall of sorts, rather a small kind of eucatastrophe, is it not, that out of Pip's error, good happens.

Yet I have some slightly different questions--questions which no doubt will raise some hackles. It certainly makes sense to conclude Book III with a chapter which focuses upon the hobbits, because that provides a link to the other strand of the story, which has been held in abeyance while we followed this part of the Fellowship. Did we ever discuss why Tolkien did not twine his two narrative threads? What did he gain by devoting Book III to the Aragorn line and Book IV to the Frodo line?

For that matter, what is the effect of bringing in another 'magical' elven tool halfway through the story? Is it a way to explain Saruman's complex behaviour and a way to handle Denethor, whose presence, like that of his heir, would be a great complication to Aragorn's ascension to the Throne of Gondor? Is it more a plot device than an essential aspect of the story, the way the Ring is essential?

On the other hand, Book I ends with Frodo's succumbing to the Ring and wounding by the Morgul blade. Book II ends with Boromir's temptation by the Ring. Here, Book III ends with Pippin's temptation with the Palantir. Book IV has Sam making an important choice. I suppose it is fitting that each section concludes with a reminder of how serious and powerful is the evil which the Fellowship faces.

Well, before I raise any more hackles, perhaps I should close and leave other items for others to bring up.

EDIT: cross posting with davem and Mithalwen