LotR -- Book 3 - Chapter 09 - Flotsam and Jetsam

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The title of this chapter actually suggests a shipwreck – Merriam-Webster Online defines “flotsam” as: “floating wreckage of a ship or its cargo” and “jetsam” as: “the part of a ship, its equipment, or its cargo that is cast overboard to lighten the load in time of distress and that sinks or is washed ashore”. At first glimpse, that would seem strange terminology for a chapter that takes place at a tower in the middle of land, but we find out why it’s appropriate later on.

Much of the chapter consists of Merry and Pippin’s narrative of the destruction of Isengard by the Ents; as we’ve read in other chapters such as “The White Rider” and “The Council of Elrond”, Tolkien uses this technique to catch up on happenings afterwards. It’s a tricky way to tell a story, but it does have the advantage of keeping up suspense in not finding out what happens elsewhere, as well as keeping the storyline flowing without breaking away from another strand of the tale.

The Three Hunters stay with the two hobbits. We see another score-keeping by Gimli – his effort in hunting Merry and Pippin is finally rewarded by food and drink (‘The score is much reduced.’ ) and pipeweed plus pipe (‘It leaves me deep in your debt.’ ). Merry and Pippin alternate in the telling of their tale; it might be interesting to see if we can detect individual differences in their respective story-telling.

Here are a few of the things that I noticed in re-reading the chapter; I will just mention them and hope for detailed discussion by many of you!

Aragorn – Strider is back, was always there, belongs to both Gondor and the North

Pippin and Merry’s knives are given back to them – crucial for later developments, especially Merry’s

Huorns – the only positive appearance of impenetrable shadow

Half-orcs – another favorite object of discussion

Orthanc – made by wizardry older and stronger than Saruman’s

Aragorn’s wise words, “Wormtongues may be found in other houses than King Théoden’s”, but his wrong conclusion about Saruman’s evil no longer being afoot – an advance clue to the Scouring of the Shire.

Strangely, one sentence by Gandalf, “Wherever I have been, I am back.” reminds me of another similar quote: “No matter where you go, there you are.” (attributed to Buckaroo Banzai, as far as I know)

Plenty of ingredients in the pot – let it simmer and discuss away!

[Lalwendë]

'Once he was as great as his fame made him. His knowledge was deep, his thought was subtle, and his hands marvellously skilled; and he had a power over the minds of others. The wise he could persuade, and the smaller folk he could daunt. That power he certainly still keeps. There are not many in Middle-earth that I should say were safe, if they were left alone to talk with him, even now when he has suffered a defeat. Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel, perhaps, now that his wickedness has been laid bare, but very few others."

This is what Aragorn says of Saruman. He not only mentions his intellect and his skill in craft, but makes a point in highlighting his 'power over the minds of others'. And he says that Saruman, despite his downfall, will still retain that power. His words betray the possibility that Saruman may at one time have had power over the minds of anyone, but that now that his reasons and motives have been made clear, there are just three people who would be able to resist: Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel. Is it coincidence that these three also bear the three Elven rings? To me, this is clearly hinting at Saruman's use of osanwe and that the Three Rings do indeed possess some power related to this. And are there any other people who could resist Saruman's voice? It seems that the Ents can resist, but how and why?

[Kuruharan]

And are there any other people who could resist Saruman's voice?

In the company of others, yes, as we will discover. However, I don't know about how the individual in question would have managed alone.

I think Ents were more resistant because they are rather...well...different. Saruman may not have known how to appeal to them.

Memories of chopping and burning probably did not help matters.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

It seems that the Ents can resist, but how and why?

During their assault on Isengard, I should imagine that they were not in much of a mood to listen to Saruman, even had he had the presence of mind to try to appeal to them. It is possible that, once the assault was over and the Ents settled down to guard the Tower, Saruman would have attempted to use his "voice" on them. However, Ents are, as we know, not the most hasty of beings and are certainly not moved into precipitative action by mere words (as Merry and Pippin discovered). It is likely, therefore, that in these circumstances they would have taken their time to consider Saruman's words, thus negating their immediacy and therefore, possibly, their "magic".

[the phantom]

It seems that the Ents can resist

Saruman may not have known how to appeal to them.

they would have taken their time to consider Saruman's words, thus negating their immediacy and therefore, possibly, their "magic"

No, no, and no.

From ROTK, Many Partings (Gandalf speaking to Treebeard)-

He had the poison of his voice, and I guess that he persuaded you, even Treebeard, knowing the soft spot in your heart.

Ents couldn't resist. After Gandalf left, Treebeard was "left alone to talk with him" and Saruman talked his way out of captivity.

[Lathriel]

I don't have the book with me right now but in this chapter I get a sense that events could have turned out very differently for saruman. If he hadn't been so hungry for power he could have been a great ally. Also I feel pity for him as wel as anger.

Pity because he was such a great man and has fallen so far.He could have become even greater if he had not changed sides and betrayed the west.

Anger because he destroyed much that was beautiful and good. Also he caused his neighbours much grief. The ents lost some of their herd and the people of Rohan lost their prince Theodred.(PLus many of the Rohirrim and soldiers)

Of course many of these emotions reach their peak in the next chapter but in "Flotsam adn Jetsam" they are beginning to develop.

In this chapter Ents are shown to be more then kind creatures. It is like a warning. Don't try to battle against somebody whose full strength you don't know. That was a major mistake of Saruman's. He obviously thought he could dismiss the ents and that he only had to worry about Rohan. On top of that he also underestimated their strength and thought htat it wasn;t important. Thus he was not prepared for the march of thre ents and this is what caused his downfall.

[Boromir88]

And are there any other people who could resist Saruman's voice?

I would say Gimli, because "they (Dwarves) are not evil by nature, and few ever served the Enemy." The dwarves were a resiliant race and basically told Sauron to bug off, despite being offered riches, land, and an "I'll leave you alone" pass. It is also Gimli who first rejects Saruman in the next chapter, as well as the previous chapters we see his fond hate for the man. Now if you give it some time, Saruman might get to Gimli. But I would say if you don't restrain Gimli he'd try to chop off Saruman's head (or legs) before Saruman corrupted him.