Dumbing it down - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Beleg Cuthalion · 02-06-2005, 06:28 PM

This is partly inspired by my own thoughts and partly by the avatar of Elrond's Daughter.

I don't really think it's the fault of Orlando Bloom or any of the other cast members that Legolas comes off as some sort of outrageous M-E equivelant of Neo, given to constant overstatement. It was Peter Jackson and his co-writers who introduced the stunts that many Tolkien enthusiasts revile (such as mself), the at times overtly-modern in influence dialogue (Legolas proclaiming "Game Over" as though he's just finished up a brisk session of Pac-Man, or Gandalf's "You'd better hope we don't have one of those on our tail", sounding suspiciously like a seasoned Bomber Command pilot inveighing against the likelyhood of Messerschmits come to mind), and plot points that ought to already be obvious made explicit ("A diversion!").

My point is that I feel that the writers, despite their stellar work on much of the films seem to, in my opinion at least, attempt lower the bar far enough that even the most witless theatre-goer will not fail to have the message pounded into his brain. It just seems as though all subtlety is abandoned in many cases in favour of making a point in as broad a fashion as possible.

To make a comparison with a film I loathe, having Legolas surf down the stairway or the Mumak's trunk is similar to the WWF references found in one scene of Shrek. It's as though if we don't include at least a few references to prosaic modernity that the audience will develop no interest in the film they're watching.

Are we really as dumb as all that?

Nimrodel_9 · 02-06-2005, 06:38 PM

Welcome to the Barrow-Downs, Beleg!

I'm not quite sure where you are going with this, but ok.

Quote:

You'd better hope we don't have one of those on our tail

I didn't like that line. It sounded to modern, and my brother noticed it too. It's the same with the "game over" part.
As for the part where Lego slides down the oliphaunts trunk, it reminded me of Tarzan.

Nim

Beleg Cuthalion · 02-06-2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrodel_9

As for the part where Lego slides down the oliphaunts trunk, it reminded me of Tarzan.

Nim

Whoah! That's freaky. Here I was writing this and I'm thinking, "Legolas swing! Angry Oliphaunt take Jane!! Jane!!".

Nimrodel_9 · 02-06-2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Whoah! That's freaky. Here I was writing this and I'm thinking, "Legolas swing! Angry Oliphaunt take Jane!! Jane!!".

Heh heh. Great minds think alike? That or LotR obsessed minds are connected.

Encaitare · 02-06-2005, 08:26 PM

Quote:

You'd better hope we don't have one of those on our tail

Well, horses have tails... and they were on a horse...

Beleg Cuthalion · 02-06-2005, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Encaitare

Well, horses have tails... and they were on a horse...

Indeed. But that particular turn of phrase wasn't originated until recently. A much more accurate (and I think, more pleasing to the ear) line would have been "And you had better hope we do not have one of those at our heels".

Boromir88 · 03-01-2005, 12:19 PM

Purely interested in being the middle-man here...in defense of The Saucepan Man, reminds me a lot of my political science teacher. Whatever we said, she would give us the opposite side of things, to get us thinking. Not trying to change our opinions, but with the pure interest of showing us what other people, who don't agree with you, believe. Often when we have our own set of opinions, we are unaware of, or just don't plain out care, what the other side has to say.

Formendacil brings up a nice point. There are changes PJ caused that strayed from the book, and made it less enjoyable (from a viewing standpoint). For example, the stupidity of the Gondor soldiers compared to the Rohirrim. Something that I've rambled on about many times, so I hope I don't need to elaborate. These are set up as fine warriors, who has been holding off Sauron's hordes, yet when we finally get to Gondor, they are even dumber then the Rohirrim civilians forced to fight in Helm's Deep. Another example of something PJ changed which I think weakened my movie experience.

02-06-2005, 06:28 PM	#1
Beleg Cuthalion Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hominum que contente mundique huius et cupido Posts: 181	Dumbing it down This is partly inspired by my own thoughts and partly by the avatar of Elrond's Daughter. I don't really think it's the fault of Orlando Bloom or any of the other cast members that Legolas comes off as some sort of outrageous M-E equivelant of Neo, given to constant overstatement. It was Peter Jackson and his co-writers who introduced the stunts that many Tolkien enthusiasts revile (such as mself), the at times overtly-modern in influence dialogue (Legolas proclaiming "Game Over" as though he's just finished up a brisk session of Pac-Man, or Gandalf's "You'd better hope we don't have one of those on our tail", sounding suspiciously like a seasoned Bomber Command pilot inveighing against the likelyhood of Messerschmits come to mind), and plot points that ought to already be obvious made explicit ("A diversion!"). My point is that I feel that the writers, despite their stellar work on much of the films seem to, in my opinion at least, attempt lower the bar far enough that even the most witless theatre-goer will not fail to have the message pounded into his brain. It just seems as though all subtlety is abandoned in many cases in favour of making a point in as broad a fashion as possible. To make a comparison with a film I loathe, having Legolas surf down the stairway or the Mumak's trunk is similar to the WWF references found in one scene of Shrek. It's as though if we don't include at least a few references to prosaic modernity that the audience will develop no interest in the film they're watching. Are we really as dumb as all that? Last edited by Beleg Cuthalion; 02-07-2005 at 07:51 PM. Reason: I think it's a better name.

03-01-2005, 12:19 PM	#7
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,518	Purely interested in being the middle-man here...in defense of The Saucepan Man, reminds me a lot of my political science teacher. Whatever we said, she would give us the opposite side of things, to get us thinking. Not trying to change our opinions, but with the pure interest of showing us what other people, who don't agree with you, believe. Often when we have our own set of opinions, we are unaware of, or just don't plain out care, what the other side has to say. Formendacil brings up a nice point. There are changes PJ caused that strayed from the book, and made it less enjoyable (from a viewing standpoint). For example, the stupidity of the Gondor soldiers compared to the Rohirrim. Something that I've rambled on about many times, so I hope I don't need to elaborate. These are set up as fine warriors, who has been holding off Sauron's hordes, yet when we finally get to Gondor, they are even dumber then the Rohirrim civilians forced to fight in Helm's Deep. Another example of something PJ changed which I think weakened my movie experience.