the Sacred Feminine

[yavanna II]

ok, I got this idea from Dan Brown... blah blah blah. Magdalane was the "wife" of Christ blah blah blah.
Enough about that.
I just got this question: is there really a sacred feminine? I mean, in the books. Luthien in my opinion nearly made it, but she's a half-divine being. Galadriel, however, isn't a Maia, so I really have no idea.

Luthien: A daughter o f a Maia, rescued her boyfriend from the 'fires of hell', died of despair, pitied by a Vala, married a mortal, had a child, died and never returned. And add the fact she touched and possessed a Silmaril. Also she shared the fate of men.

Galadriel: A granddaughter of Noldoli nobles, an activist and only female leader in the Revolution of the Noldor (as I love calling the time after the Darkening of Valinor), lived in Beleriand, married a local Elf, survived the Downfall. Then she moved to the East, became the Lady of Lorien, an anti-Sauron, the only Wise who wanted Gandalf head of the White Council, gave the Fellowship shelter, and of course, resisted the Ring.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ah, Danny boy... what a guy.

Now in my thoughts, Middle Earth DID have a sacred feminine. Several, in fact. Yavanna, Nienna, Varda... etcetera. See what I mean? The Elves particularly loved and "worshiped" Elbereth, as seen when they sing to her, or call on her aid in despair. The Valar are so great when it comes to equal rights... I mean, Eru is a "He", but only in terms of the universal pronoun. He isn't really anything, but he is, you know? But the Valar... they've got equal numbers of "men" and "women". They are worshipped equally. Manwe is the most powerful, I suppose, but the Varda is probably the most loved. I suppose the Middle Earth Priory of Scion would be the Elves, loving and preserving the memory (if not the bloodlines) of their revered lady of light.

[THE Ka]

Okay, this has to be quick because, I have to leave soon...(I'll finish it later! I'll be back)


Well, you do have a point. I've had similar thoughts about this. I've seen Eru as what is called the 'omnipotent power'... Basically, the original life force in the beginnning that after creating cosmos, ect. decides to further improve upon this. Then, if you remember, Eru made the valar and other forces from his thought. Another way to see this is that, all feminine powers or aspects, represent that sacred, and all masculine aspects, represent another sacred. It is common of cultures to do this, since one force can have many different attributes...

( Will finish up later.)

~Hurrying to school ka~

[Lalaith]

Yavanna, a question - do you mean something specific by the "sacred feminine"? Is this something to do with the Da Vinci Code?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

do you mean something specific by the "sacred feminine"?

In the holy trinity, there is already a sacred masculine. The father, the son, and the holy spirit. From what I remember, the sacred feminine fits in there somewhere to even it out. I just... can't... remember... where. The basic point is that in general, the masculine is worshipped. The sacred feminine, as far as I can remember, is the balancing force in holy terms.

Fea [who needs to reread the copy of The Da Vinci Code that's sitting on her table]

[Essex]

off at a tangent, and yes I should visit a dan brown board, but I feel sorry for the guys who wrote the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail 15 odd years ago, who no doubt Dan Brown borrowed from to make millions!

PS yes, I have read dan brown's book. It's ok, but I thought Angels and Demons was much better pulp fiction.

Back to the question, I would not cast ANY female Elf as a Sacred Feminine, but that's because I see the Elves as FAR from perfect to say the least.

[Neithan]

I think that both the feminine and the masculine were just different parts of Eru's mind, which I think is part of what Ka was getting at.
Just a note on feminine roles in mythology, the very first primitive civilizations often worshiped women figures (often times a women leader of the tribe) for fertility. Women are the symbol of fertility so from this came the concept of "Mother Earth". In those times these mother figures were the most important in mythology because people needed crops to survive. Later mythology was largely taken over by men (in Greek mythology mother earth's husband and later her male children gain power over her, this was probably the Greek's way of shifting from the female dominated religion to a male dominated one). In most mythologies there was still a remnent of that "mother figure" representing fertility (Demeter). In Tolkiens mythology Yavanna seems to fill this role. Of course that is not the only role in mythology for women, but it is the one role that is almost always played by a women.

[yavanna II]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Yavanna, a question - do you mean something specific by the "sacred feminine"? Is this something to do with the Da Vinci Code?

Yup. Sure do.

[tar-ancalime]

I feel sorry for the guys who wrote the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail 15 odd years ago, who no doubt Dan Brown borrowed from to make millions!

Not to mention poor Umberto Eco--I thought quite a lot of D.V. Code was cribbed directly from Foucault's Pendulum.

Regarding the main topic of this thread (and cleverly keeping my post from being deleted), I think that Mithalwen and Formendacil have got the right idea. I do have deep reservations, though, about the whole idea of classifying sanctity by gender, regardless of the causal chain involved. It seems to me immaterial, for example, whether Yavanna or Varda exhibits a sanctity that is somehow feminine in its basic nature or whether their femininity causes them to "manifest [their] sanctity in specific ways."

Regardless of which side of that fence one sits on, the effect of the whole argument is to draw lines around each divine being, defining what aspects of sanctity are and are not appropriate for that divinity. Rather than directly describing sanctity or divine beings, it seems to me that that type of discussion is more about the kinds of stories people tell ourselves to help us understand the unknowable. I'm going out on a Legendarium limb here, not having read HoME, but could it be that the very classification of the Valar into genders (like referring to the Sun as "she", as Ka pointed out) can be thought of as a storytelling device employed by the Elves?

(I feel a massive Canon correction coming on...I'm sure I deserve it! )