It's Eomer time! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Boromir88 · 01-24-2005, 07:22 PM

Sorry for the queer title, but we've had discussions about Aragorn ,
Frodo , Aragorn and MoS , and I just think it's time for an Eomer discussion.

A common view is that Eomer was underused in the movies. That PJ heightened Theoden's and Gamling's role, and lessened Eomer's. To a point I agree, I mean when you have The one eyed man in TTT get more screen time then Eomer, that's sad.

I think Eomer is definitely underused in the movies, but the things that Jackson has Eomer do is what stands out. He saves the day instead of Erkenbrand. I find this to be a good change (especially for fans who aren't familiar with the books). They see a familiar face, come with Gandalf and save the day at Helm's Deep instead of just a Rohan Marshal who's only glory is in Helm's Deep. Also, with the story that Jackson had set up behind it, it worked well, and was more powerful then just a random Rohan guy. The recently exiled Eomer riding away, is chased down by Gandalf, to come back and save the day. It adds a bit of irony. Theoden (well Grima) banished Eomer, but Eomer comes to save Theoden's butt. Now this does take away Eomer's fighting at Helm's Deep, but I think it is a suitable change, all for the better.

This is another rather minor thing, but I like it. In the books it is Gandalf who tells Grima "Too long have you haunted her (Eowyn's) steps...etc." PJ gives this line to Eomer, and again this holds more power, or meaning, behind it with Eowyn's brother threatening Grima, instead of Gandalf.

I can't go without mentioning Karl Urban's wonderful performance after seeing Eowyn dead on the battlefield (or so he thinks). Maybe, it's just because Urban does a wonderful job acting that we as viewers wished to see him more (and the book fans wished to see Eomer's glory on Pelennor )

Your thoughts on Karl Urban and Eomer's role in the movies?

radagastly · 01-24-2005, 09:38 PM

This is tough, mostly because he does appear so little compared to the books. I agree that it was better to have him save the day at Helm's Deep than to introduce Erkenbrand, another whole character, just for that one sweeping scene. A new character would be too confusing to fit it into the movie at that point. But at the same time, I missed his heroics at Helm's Deep, I missed the developing friendship between him and Aragorn, and the banter with Gimli (it would have been nice to see comic relief from Gimli that Tolkien actually wrote!) Still, I understand why it was done the way it was. It kinda short-changed him though.

His reaction to finding Eowyn at Pelennor made me cry, even more than it's equivalent in the book, I think. It seems to me that in the book, there is so much going on right then, that it was hard to take the time for tears before moving on to the end of the huge battle. I also liked his loyal puppy-dog expression in the Houses of Healing, a scene which he was not scheduled to be in. According to the commentary, he talked to P.J. etc. and convinced them that after the emotional scene at the battle, Eomer needed to be by Eowyn's side until she got better. I tend to wish they'd found more for him to do in Return of the King, though. After all, he is the future king of Rohan.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-25-2005, 11:48 AM

...more applause, more I say!

*ahem*

I would have liked at least some recognition that he became King. I was surprised that that was not in the extended version.

(You knew I couldn't resist doing that didn't you Boro?)

Mithalwen · 01-25-2005, 12:18 PM

As I admitted elsewhere, I nearly cried when Eomer found Eowyn. And although a lot of his stuff was omitted, at least what we had was true to the spirit of the Eomer in the book whereas so many of the characters were demeaned for the sake of driving the plot along. At least he picked up some of Imrahil's lines which isn't a bad deal... The rohirrim were shown to be magnificent on the fields of the pelennor and compared favourably to the "high" men of Gondor. But I am sorry they couldn't have worked in the lethal anger of Eomer after thinking Eowyn dead. The increased use of the army of the dead rather demeaned the glory of the mortal warriors. In the book there is a line about Eomer in the midst of battle and grief being young and king of a fell people... I do feel there is something refreshingly straightforward about Eomer. A man of action among the thinkers but not gung ho.

I too wish there had been more about him becoming king and also Thoden's funeral - my big disappointment was that there were no extra scenes after the coronation with say the farewells to Eomer and Eowyn, and Gimli and Legolas.

But I have to say that I thought Karl Urban was magnificent. I am sure he will go a long way. He was probably the least known and experienced actor in a major role and he more than held his own...

Boromir88 · 01-25-2005, 12:25 PM

I agree, I would have loved to seen a scene of Eomer the new King of Rohan. Let me ask this then...

I think a big reason we all wanted to see more Eomer was because of Karl Urban (Yes? No?). So, if let's say Urban wasn't Eomer, and they had some less then average guy act out this part. Act out Eomer finding Eowyn, Eomer threatening Grima...etc, would you still have wished to see more of him?

Mithalwen · 01-25-2005, 12:56 PM

I find this hard because, when I first saw Karl Urban in a picture, he didn't looklike my vision of Eomer - basically I was fixed in a blonder, blue eyed sterotype. But he has become Eomer for me really from the first conversation with Aragorn. He has a great screen presence without "attention " seeking. It hasn't occured to me before but he carried on the dynamism and physicality that Sean Bean contributed to the first movie. I think the film would have really suffered without these actors in these key but "supporting" roles.... so perhaps that is a yes ... we want more of Eomer because Urabn makes him seem a 3 dimensional character, not a cipher...

01-24-2005, 07:22 PM	#1
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,518	It's Eomer time! Sorry for the queer title, but we've had discussions about Aragorn , Frodo , Aragorn and MoS , and I just think it's time for an Eomer discussion. A common view is that Eomer was underused in the movies. That PJ heightened Theoden's and Gamling's role, and lessened Eomer's. To a point I agree, I mean when you have The one eyed man in TTT get more screen time then Eomer, that's sad. I think Eomer is definitely underused in the movies, but the things that Jackson has Eomer do is what stands out. He saves the day instead of Erkenbrand. I find this to be a good change (especially for fans who aren't familiar with the books). They see a familiar face, come with Gandalf and save the day at Helm's Deep instead of just a Rohan Marshal who's only glory is in Helm's Deep. Also, with the story that Jackson had set up behind it, it worked well, and was more powerful then just a random Rohan guy. The recently exiled Eomer riding away, is chased down by Gandalf, to come back and save the day. It adds a bit of irony. Theoden (well Grima) banished Eomer, but Eomer comes to save Theoden's butt. Now this does take away Eomer's fighting at Helm's Deep, but I think it is a suitable change, all for the better. This is another rather minor thing, but I like it. In the books it is Gandalf who tells Grima "Too long have you haunted her (Eowyn's) steps...etc." PJ gives this line to Eomer, and again this holds more power, or meaning, behind it with Eowyn's brother threatening Grima, instead of Gandalf. I can't go without mentioning Karl Urban's wonderful performance after seeing Eowyn dead on the battlefield (or so he thinks). Maybe, it's just because Urban does a wonderful job acting that we as viewers wished to see him more (and the book fans wished to see Eomer's glory on Pelennor ) Your thoughts on Karl Urban and Eomer's role in the movies?

01-24-2005, 09:38 PM	#2
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	This is tough, mostly because he does appear so little compared to the books. I agree that it was better to have him save the day at Helm's Deep than to introduce Erkenbrand, another whole character, just for that one sweeping scene. A new character would be too confusing to fit it into the movie at that point. But at the same time, I missed his heroics at Helm's Deep, I missed the developing friendship between him and Aragorn, and the banter with Gimli (it would have been nice to see comic relief from Gimli that Tolkien actually wrote!) Still, I understand why it was done the way it was. It kinda short-changed him though. His reaction to finding Eowyn at Pelennor made me cry, even more than it's equivalent in the book, I think. It seems to me that in the book, there is so much going on right then, that it was hard to take the time for tears before moving on to the end of the huge battle. I also liked his loyal puppy-dog expression in the Houses of Healing, a scene which he was not scheduled to be in. According to the commentary, he talked to P.J. etc. and convinced them that after the emotional scene at the battle, Eomer needed to be by Eowyn's side until she got better. I tend to wish they'd found more for him to do in Return of the King, though. After all, he is the future king of Rohan. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

01-25-2005, 11:48 AM	#3
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	It's Eomer time... ...more applause, more I say! ahem I would have liked at least some recognition that he became King. I was surprised that that was not in the extended version. (You knew I couldn't resist doing that didn't you Boro?) __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond Last edited by Eomer of the Rohirrim; 01-25-2005 at 11:49 AM. Reason: for laughs

01-25-2005, 12:18 PM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	As I admitted elsewhere, I nearly cried when Eomer found Eowyn. And although a lot of his stuff was omitted, at least what we had was true to the spirit of the Eomer in the book whereas so many of the characters were demeaned for the sake of driving the plot along. At least he picked up some of Imrahil's lines which isn't a bad deal... The rohirrim were shown to be magnificent on the fields of the pelennor and compared favourably to the "high" men of Gondor. But I am sorry they couldn't have worked in the lethal anger of Eomer after thinking Eowyn dead. The increased use of the army of the dead rather demeaned the glory of the mortal warriors. In the book there is a line about Eomer in the midst of battle and grief being young and king of a fell people... I do feel there is something refreshingly straightforward about Eomer. A man of action among the thinkers but not gung ho. I too wish there had been more about him becoming king and also Thoden's funeral - my big disappointment was that there were no extra scenes after the coronation with say the farewells to Eomer and Eowyn, and Gimli and Legolas. But I have to say that I thought Karl Urban was magnificent. I am sure he will go a long way. He was probably the least known and experienced actor in a major role and he more than held his own... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-25-2005, 12:56 PM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	I find this hard because, when I first saw Karl Urban in a picture, he didn't looklike my vision of Eomer - basically I was fixed in a blonder, blue eyed sterotype. But he has become Eomer for me really from the first conversation with Aragorn. He has a great screen presence without "attention " seeking. It hasn't occured to me before but he carried on the dynamism and physicality that Sean Bean contributed to the first movie. I think the film would have really suffered without these actors in these key but "supporting" roles.... so perhaps that is a yes ... we want more of Eomer because Urabn makes him seem a 3 dimensional character, not a cipher... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-25-2005, 12:25 PM	#5
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,518	I agree, I would have loved to seen a scene of Eomer the new King of Rohan. Let me ask this then... I think a big reason we all wanted to see more Eomer was because of Karl Urban (Yes? No?). So, if let's say Urban wasn't Eomer, and they had some less then average guy act out this part. Act out Eomer finding Eowyn, Eomer threatening Grima...etc, would you still have wished to see more of him?