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12-13-2004, 03:01 PM | #1 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Green Dragon Inn
Posts: 22
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mithril vest
This thread is for the discution of the origin of frodo's mithril vest. And a little bit on Legolas's age.
Theory: King Thranduil ordered the vest for his young son Legolas, but was never deliverd due to the arival of Smaug. clues: 1. found in eribor 2. Thorin said it was made by his people 3. it was said that it could not have fit a dwarf 4. made for an elf-prince Why Legolas and Thranduil? It was said that Thranduil had a weekness for silver and white gems. The vest had these. Beregond said Pippin looked like a boy of nine summers, and young elves had about the same growth rate as humans. Thranduil's kingdome was closest to Eribor too. He also had only one son. Elronds sons where to big and to old for it to fit them also. Celeborn and Galadrial had only a doughter and there is no mentoin of Cirdan having children. Thranduil said to Bilbo " Bilbo Baggins! you are more worthy to wear the armor of elf princes than many that have looked more comely in it." Legolas would have to be around 250 in the war of the ring. Besides the arival of Smaug there is no reason it would not have been delivered. It would have had to be compleated around the same time Smaug came or it would have been delivered before he arived. I know he is not the only elf prince in middle earth. It is just the one theory out of many I thought most reasonable. Last edited by Bandobras Took; 12-13-2004 at 03:30 PM. |
12-13-2004, 03:23 PM | #2 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 297
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It's possible, but Legolas isn't the only elf prince in Middle Earth. And that statement is like our saying "it's fit for a king", we're not actually saying that it belongs to a king somewhere.
But it is possible that it did belong to some elf prince, maybe even Legolas.
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12-13-2004, 04:04 PM | #3 | |
Deadnight Chanter
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Good logic, I daresay. It may well be so.
But compare: Quote:
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12-13-2004, 06:25 PM | #5 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Green Dragon Inn
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"and but a little while does that seem to us" he sais indicating his people ( I think), not himself
Last edited by Bandobras Took; 12-13-2004 at 06:56 PM. |
12-13-2004, 07:57 PM | #6 |
Laconic Loreman
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The thing I can't stop thinking about, is unless Thranduil planned on "stealing" the mithril coat somehow, I don't see why the dwarves of Erebor would just hand it over to Thranduil. Considering that he did imprison him.
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12-14-2004, 11:00 AM | #7 | |||
Laconic Loreman
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Quote:
Thinking about Thranduil, and I'm trying to think, before he imprisoned them, what would a reason be that he despised dwarves? Here's an interesting quote from Appendix F... Quote:
Quote:
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12-14-2004, 12:21 PM | #8 | |
Beloved Shadow
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Thranduil wasn't the only one who made a statement about the mail being made for an elf-prince.
From The Hobbit- Quote:
But do we know for certain that Legolas had no brothers?
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12-14-2004, 12:30 PM | #9 |
Laconic Loreman
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Thanks for the quote Phantom, if it was just Thranduil who was saying it I would have lots of doubt. I wouldn't doubt that Thranduil would try lie to get the vest. But that quote from narrative backs up Thranduil. Maybe I should be more kind to the guy? Naaa, I still don't like what he did to my dwarves.
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12-14-2004, 01:58 PM | #10 | |
Wight
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Valinor
Posts: 215
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Quote:
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But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile. Last edited by Amarie of the Vanyar; 12-14-2004 at 01:59 PM. Reason: spelling |
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12-14-2004, 02:18 PM | #11 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Quote:
Here are some possibilities to the Messenger thing. 1) Your idea, Legolas had an older brother, and he actually wasn't Thranduil's "primary" heir. 2) I don't see why a King/Lord would send their heir, on a mission that they could possibly not return on. However, we see this a lot in LOTR. Boromir begged his father to go and Theodred died in battle. Maybe, Legolas begged Thranduil. 3) Thranduil simply didn't think it was something dangerous. Maybe he thought Legolas would give out the news, and then return home. I will have to do some searching, but I don't believe Faramir was ever called an "heir," or any mention of him being "heir" until Boromir died. |
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12-14-2004, 02:39 PM | #12 | |
Haunting Spirit
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Quote:
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12-15-2004, 08:04 AM | #13 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Just to clear things up: my quote of it being made for "soome young elf-prince long ago" was from the narration, not a quote of Thranduil.
Hmmm, I wonder if Tolkien had thought that Lego was going to be as popular as he is, would Tolkien have written more about him?
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12-16-2004, 07:44 AM | #14 | |
Haunting Spirit
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Quote:
This is mirrored by the situation of the Elves in Middle-earth at the time of the War of the Ring. Legolas IMHO do represent in a way this situation in the Fellowship. The time for the Elves in Middle-earth is over. And showing 'more Legolas' in the book wouldn't have fit the situation. So I think that Tolkien gave Legolas this role explicitly. Leaving offtopic: Correct me, if I am wrong: - There is no mention, that the vest was made by the Dwarves of Erebor. - There is no mention, in which age the vest was made. "long ago" is a bit vague. :-) - There is no mention, how the vest came to Smaug. - We know, that Dwarves have made the vest. - We know, that this vest was made for an elf-prince. Assuming this, we can think of other potential candidates: #1 Amroth: Amroth's history was often changed by Tolkien. In one version, he is the son of Celeborn and Galadriel, but this version was rejected. Or he was the son of Amdir. A a version with Malgalad but without fatherhood. In every case, Amroth was a prince, before he became King or Lord of Lorien. There was mithril in the near of Lorien (-> Moria). #2 Celebrimbor: I am assuming, that Celebrimbor is the son of Curufin and assuming that Celebrimbor was born in Middle-earth. This is not clear, concerning his father, there are different versions and concerning his date of birth, there is no mention, but a assumption, because he didn't swear the oath. (shortly) The family of Feanor is connected with juwels and such things. Curufin, having a region in the east of Beleriand under his control, could have had some relations to the Dwarves of the Ered Luin. #3 other son of Thranduil: There is no mention, that Legolas is the only one. What about these as a alternative to Legolas? As a very vague and improbable thesis (not to take very serious), we can choose Elladan and Elrohir. The smith(s) could only have made one vest, but Elrond wanted two. *g*
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12-16-2004, 07:44 PM | #15 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Quote:
Good work with the other possibilities of whose vest it is.
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12-27-2004, 01:08 PM | #16 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington State
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I also agree that the coat is for Legolas son of Thranduil. It is said in the book that the mail is for an Elf-prince. In that region the nearest Elven kingdom is the Woodland Realm. This kingdom is ruled by Thranduil and Legolas is his son, therefore making him prince. So if the mail is for an Elf-prince, then it is rightfully Legolas'.
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