Yet another call by me.

[Imladris]

The Barrowdowns is an excellent site. Moreover, it is a Tolkien site. It is not a Harry Potter site. Consequantly (as a rabid Harry Potter fan as most of you may have noticed), I don't like it when I see Harry Potter mentioned in a...less than favourable light on a Tolkien board. Examples of this are as follows:

J.K.Rowling, author of the highly acclaimed Harry Potter series, of which I have mentioned before, wrote a great couple of books, a couple of books that has gathered about them a following like few others, and a generation behind...But, the rules and science of Rowling can become redundant, and it is reduced to generic fantasy, no matter who delving or well-written. This is, perhaps, why it is not as appealing to adults as to children, like the Tolkien literary armada. Mumbling funnily stated spells, that, over time, gain meaning in our hearts, may be flashy, and a good memory aid. But, did you feel the same pang in your heart the first time that youthful sorceror uttered the words "Expelliarmus," as when "he [Gandalf] raised his hand and from it a shaft of white light stabbed upward!" (RotK, The Siege of Gondor). I did not, (though I was not exactly 'impressed' by the quality of those books under any circumstance, regardless of what I may have said to the contrary).

First off it's too hard to explain because someone who hasn't read the books won't understand the Istari, and plus it's just annoying. As discussed many times the Istari weren't some fairy Harry Potter karblasto wizards.

This has made me think a lot about magic in Middle Earth. Firstly that it is not a matter to be taken lightly - none of the casual playing around with magic that occurs in, say Harry Potter, also that it is not something that anyone can do .... though this is a clumsy way of putting it but I will elaborate more in relation to my main point.

Well I suppose part of the problem I have in defining magic - is because I don't believe in it - at least not in "Harry Potter" point a wand and 'pouf' type magic. It seems to me that so often what is termed magic is simply a failure to understand the technology. And I really don't believe I have "magical" powers.

*decides to ignore the fact that HP wizards don't just point a wand and poof it happens as this is a Tolkien board.

If that's the definition of Mary Sue
or Gary Lou, the Harry Potter in the
philospher's stone book must be a Gary lou!

Let me use Harry Potter as an example: where in the real world would you find children treating their chemistry lessons or algebra class as something 'special' unless they were real egg-heads? Most real real children I know would would regard their schoolwork, no matter how much they were good at it or how much they like it, as just normal something that has-to-be-done. I would have expected magical people to treat their magic the same way. But in Rowling's world, it seems that even magical people are surprised at their own abilities: they act like muggles who suddenly have power.

My point in all of this is that there are Harry Potter fans, such as myself, on this forum. I do not enjoy seeing a story that I love being blasted just because someone's opinion is different than mine. I honestly do not see how the first example enhanced the argument in any way. You had a different feeling with LotR than HP -- it's a reader's experience, thus should not be included in a Tolkien discussion.

Secondly, we, as Harry Potter fans, cannot really debate our point of view as this is a Tolkien board. Is it okay to illustrate a point using Harry Potter? Yes...it is. But don't bring your own opinion into it.

For example: The Istari are not like the HP wizards.

That is a perfectly fine illustration of comparison. Please, I beg you, do not go blasting HP just because you don't like it and because you think it does not qualify as high myth/literature.

Are you entitled to your opinion? Definitely. Just...don't proclaim it on a board devoted to Tolkien please.

No I do not mean to attack the people I quoted.

Mods/Admins, forgive me if this topic is not appropriate. However, I thought it was a problem that needed to be addressed...

[Rimbaud]

I think the same rules apply in any situation where somebody references a non-Tolkien topic expressing an opinion with which you do not agree. Rather than derail the thread, or start a new one on a non-Tolkien topic, PM the person in question, and carry on your debate there (or rather, take it to email, if necessary).

~Rim

[Sharkû]

Rimbaud's advice is very good.
I have to say I cannot really see the point of this thread. There are many unnecessary things that can be brought into a discussion, and many of these would be detrimental. That does not warrant that a certain non-Tolkien topic should receive any other treatment than the others.

[Imladris]

The point of this thread is to ask people to stop interjecting in their posts/arguments non-Tolkien subjects with a biased slant. I suppose it is a call to keep arguments pure from personal bias.

Use non-Tolkien subjects as examples, but I ask that they please keep it free from personal opinion.

I used Harry Potter as an example because it is the most prominent one, in my opinion.

I really am truly sorry that I started a pointless thread and I humbly as that a mod/admin delete it if it is viewed as such. I mean that in a non-sarcastic way...

[Mithalwen]

Well since I have been quoted twice, I would like to put on record that I am actually a Harry Potter fan - I thought book 5 needed a good edit but I was up at the crack of dawn that 21st June to buy the wretched thing. The point that I was trying to make was that there is a different treatment of magic in the two books - magic is not used to repare houshold items or cook in Tolkien.......

If you regard that as an attack on Harry Potter then that is up to you. I am sure JK will cry all the way to the bank. I love Harry, but as it happens I do think Tolkien is in a different league. I also think that there are greater writers (though perhaps few greater storytellers or creative geniuses) than Tolkien - and I have said that on the downs and survived to tell the tale.

If the books are so good they will stand a little criticism ... if you feel they cannot stand up to criticism.. well go figure...... And if you think what I said is "blasting", then I think that is a distorted view.

It is natural to compare books to other books - I don't see why we should be censored to protect HP............

This will be a very bare board if we are forbidden personal opinions...

[Imladris]

If the books are so good they will stand a little criticism ... if you feel they cannot stand up to criticism.. well go figure......

This is a Tolkien forum...you were comparing Harry Potter to Tolkien on topics that weren't even devoted to it.

Critisize Harry Potter all you want -- I don't care (I've critisized it myself). Don't do it on a Tolkien forum.

I'm not saying, "Don't you dare touch the Harry Potter because it is teh awesomeness!!!!1111!!!" I am saying to keep Harry Potter or whatever else in it's own circles.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

ral to compare books to other books - I don't see why we should be censored to protect HP............

Originally Posted by Me

Is it okay to illustrate a point using Harry Potter? Yes...it is. But don't bring your own opinion into it.

For example: The Istari are not like the HP wizards.