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09-06-2004, 01:31 AM | #1 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
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LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 12 - Flight to the Ford
This is the last chapter in Book 1. Though much of it concerns the injured Frodo and Strider’s efforts to save his life, the other hobbits have their parts to play, and one of the best-loved minor characters (though unknown to movie fans) shows up – Glorfindel. The first tiny clue to Arwen’s existence is given, though few readers will have been aware of it at first reading. There is also a fore-shadowing of the Fell Beasts. The troll “encounter” provides a light-hearted look back at Bilbo’s adventures.
Sam is presumed to be the author of this chapter’s only poem; it gives the others – and us – an additional glimpse of abilities and depths as yet unknown in him. The suspense with which the chapter ends is wonderfully written! We see a Frodo who still has some strength and resistance against the Ringwraiths, although we are left in uncertainty of his survival at the very end. What are your impressions upon reading this chapter?
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09-06-2004, 06:47 AM | #2 | ||
Illustrious Ulair
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Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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Christopher Tolkien makes some interesting observations on an early draft of this chapter:
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I don't know how uncomfortable some others felt with the episode with the trolls, but to me it felt a little 'forced', as though Tolkien put it in there in order simply to tie the 'New Hobbit' in with the 'Old'. These stone trolls, with bird's nests behind their ears seem too out of place. Still, it got us Sam's song, so I'll be forgiving. It also got us his declaration that he doesn't want to be either a wizard or a warrior, & maybe, just maybe, thats a glimpse of the reason he's able to resist the lure of the Ring - he simply doesn't want anything it could offer him. Finally, the confrontation with the riders - this shows Tolkien's superiority over the movie scriptwriters, as the culmination of this chapter simply blows away the rather silly version in the movie. Frodo's defiance of the Nazgul, in his near death state, is so moving, so inspiring - though his attempt at commanding them to obey him possibly has darker implications - that what the movie offers us in its place is simply pathetic. (Oh, I noticed for the first time on this reading that the Nazgul attempt to stop Frodo with the Black Breath: Quote:
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09-06-2004, 06:55 AM | #3 |
Princess of Skwerlz
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Interesting thoughts, davem, and they prompted another thought - was Frodo the only one who saw Glorfindel shining in the light of Valinor? Was he able to see that because of the influence of the Ring? Could only those who had some connection with the spiritual realm see the light? If so, then there had to be at least some contact between the spiritual realms of light and darkness; apparently the Wraiths saw the light as well. I'm reminded of Biblical accounts of battles between the forces of good and evil, unseen by earthly beings.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
09-06-2004, 08:50 AM | #4 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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About the light... I think that being able to see it must have something to do with a connection to the other world. Elves must be able to see the light on each other, since they are very close to the "spiritual realm". It must be very unusual for a mortal, like Frodo, to see the light because mortals-men, dwarves, and hobbits, are more concerned with the real world, for lack of a better term.
I think Frodo could see the light because of the effects of the Morgul blade drawing him away to the spirit world. However, I don't think Wraiths are in one place or another: They have no visible form, but are able to affect the real world. Frodo was being drawn to their halfway world and so could see the light of Valinor because he was partially in the spiritual realm. --- I love this chapter...It starts out rather grim with Frodo being stabbed and everything, but at this point in the book, the lighter tone still has its moments, perhaps the last moments we will see of the more light writing... The whole thing with the trolls is a great example. Though at first the hobbits are frightened by the possibility of real trolls, the scene turns into a lighthearted adventure in which Strider gets a chance to joke around a little and all the hobbits get their last laugh for a while. I loved this, too: Quote:
--- I agree with davem about the scene at the ford: The book version is much more inspiring and intense. This is the hero-Frodo that doesn't come out so much in the movies. Frodo shows a great inner strength that I don't notice as much in the movie. By the force of his own will, he holds the wraiths off for as long as he can. He resists to the last, fighting so hard against the rising darkness...compared to the movie where he sits like a dummy in front of Arwen on the horse and does absoloutely nothing. I love the movies, but this scene is done much more effectively in the book. The emotions inspired are very different... PJ was going for something else... Tolkien's Frodo inspires the readers and shows just how strong he actually is... The movie shows us how strong Arwen supposedly is. Frodo's battle is much more powerful. I don't really have an issue with Arwen being there in the movie: If they had kept Glorfindel in, but had kept Frodo weak and just sitting there, I would have had a problem with that, too. I understand that they needed a way to introduce Arwen, so I'm not picking on the fact that it was her: I'm picking on the fact that it isn't Frodo's heroism that we see.
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09-06-2004, 12:34 PM | #5 | ||
Alive without breath
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I like to think of it like this; The Barrow Wights were essays in the craft, just like the lesser rings were to the Smiths of Eregion. The Nazgul were perfection in the craft, Like the Tree Elven rings. Do you see where I am coming from? Back on topic; Glorfindel tells Strider to keep the hilt of the Morgul blade, so that Elrond can read the runes from it. To me this seemed very similar to the happenings in the Hobbit concerning Glamdring and Orcrist. Also, I found that here, the Black riders seem to embed their greatest fears in Frodo. Although, to me, they seemed more threatening when they were an unknown shadow in the shire. At least back in the shire Frodo ran but with not as much fear as he had now. He now knows what they are and where they are from, this seems to leave him even more afraid of the, with obvious reasons. Quote:
I think it is here that the desire for the ring works against Sauron. If it was not so precious to Frodo, his will may have broken there and he would have given up the ring with no second thought. However, his great desire for the ring helps him to hold out ageist them.
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I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket... Last edited by Hookbill the Goomba; 09-06-2004 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Rats |
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09-06-2004, 01:00 PM | #6 | ||
Illustrious Ulair
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Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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09-06-2004, 01:32 PM | #7 | |
Brightness of a Blade
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For me, in this chapter Frodo proves himself as a hero for the first time. (of course you can argue there's that Barrow Downs scene when he's cutting off that spidery hand, but that was a desperate gesture, preceeded by many arguments for and against that valiant deed, some not very hero-like...):
I remember reading for the first time and becoming more and more impressed with Frodo, whereas before I was just patiently expectant. What really got to me from the start was his ability to quietly and calmly endure debilitating pains and later on, the fact that he did not ruminate on his very likely to be tragic future, not to mention the tragic outcome of his quest. The chapter is generally from Frodo's point of view, and the only time Frodo allows himself to sink in dark thoughts is when he wonders how they will get on with their journey, seeing as he's unable to walk. I find that really admirable about him. And, of course no less admirable is his final stand at the Ford. I agree with davem that the movie belittles a scene that speaks volumes about Frodo and his desires and courage. It's funny that you used the word 'inspiring' - I was about to comment that the famous line in which Frodo invokes Elbereth and Luthien the Fair sounds like it was 'inspired' to him, by whom I don't know, maybe by the proximity of Rivendell, maybe by Glorfindel. Glorfindel is another revelation of this chapter, and one of my favourite characters. His presence, especially in the context of these troubled events is comforting and protective. He also represents a reader's first encounter with a really powerful Elf. His powers are hinted at even from the moment of his appearance, as Frodo perceives the 'white light' that engulfs him, and later on, as he is able to ease Frodo's pain and clear his vision, even involuntarily, with a simple touch. Speaking of Glorfindel's appearance on his horse, Asfaloth, here's a line that I love: Quote:
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10-22-2004, 09:54 AM | #8 | ||
Stormdancer of Doom
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....Yup. Pervasive, I think, so much so (to me) that I am surprised it is a matter of question. Quote:
Seems to me that it's not just the herb (an infusion of which is good for headaches) and not just the man(why did he go looking for the athelas if the power all came from him anyway?) -- but a process involving rest, easing of pain, and immersion in truth and what is good. I'm thinking of the Houses of Healing, where Aragorn first infuses the athelas, then uses osanwe to go after the wandering soul. Again, Aragorn didn't start without the Athelas; but just the herb without the man would have only cured the headache, not the Black Breath.
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09-10-2004, 01:10 PM | #9 | |
Illustrious Ulair
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Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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09-10-2004, 03:29 PM | #10 | |
Bittersweet Symphony
Join Date: Jul 2004
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09-10-2004, 04:30 PM | #11 | |
Master of the Secret Fire
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09-10-2004, 11:52 PM | #12 | ||||||
Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
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My thoughts.
Sorry for breaking the flow of the topic, but such deep lore is not for me. Indeed, my thoughts would seem mundane and mediocre compared to previous posts.
But still . . . This time, I actually read the chapter, so I have better ideas. (Last week, a friend of mine loaned the Fellowship, so I was not able to read the chapter concerned.) Anywhen, here goes . . . Dim Echoes of the Next Journey There seems to be many parallels between Frodo’s journey to Rivendell and his quest to Mt. Doom. Here are some:
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Aragorn the Herb of Kings This is the first time we are introduced to athelas, and, during the course of the tale, it seems to describe something else . . . Quote:
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Just a Few Tidbits ~ Revenge of the Barrow-blade Can swords avenge their comrades? Looks like they can. The Witch-King broke Frodo’s sword in the Ford of Bruinen. Then Merry's sword struck him at the Pelennor Fields. First, we have talking swords, then emotional swords. Now avenging swords? ~ Trolls: if you’re quick you’ll see they’re false. It was a bit of a mind teaser. After Pippin saw the trolls in the clearing, Tolkien started the next paragraph with this sentence: Quote:
Glorfindel was one of the reasons I’m here poring over Middle-earth, instead of . . . gee, I don’t know where I’ll be. My sister kept on talking about a Glorfindel that was on that river, not Arwen as on the movie. That tidbit (plus a little conundrum concerning the location of Rivendell in relation to Mordor and Isengard) piqued me enough that, on the eve of New Year, 2003, I picked the Fellowship up and began reading it.
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Last edited by Nilpaurion Felagund; 09-11-2004 at 12:10 AM. Reason: something . . . something . . . |
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09-11-2004, 02:56 AM | #13 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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As to Beren87's points - that would take a week's answer or none at all, so I'll have to come back to that later - though the more I think about it the more I wonder whether it wouldn't rather require a whole new thread. |
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