Why their were no women in the fellowship - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

lothlorien · 09-05-2004, 06:37 AM

Hi I don't know if this has already been done but I was wondering the other day why Tolkien made the fellowship be all guys.

At first I thought ok maybe in his time women weren't meant to fight but as I thought about it more I came up with another reason reply and let me know what you think.

I think the reason tolkien didn't put any women in the fellowship is because it might have lead to problems within the fellowship itself (and I'm not being sexist I'm a girl). I mean if you think about it 9 guys would probably do better than if you had 8 guys and 1 woman or 7 guys and 2 women I think it might have created problem's and I did say might I mean guys travelling for so many months with one or 2 women I think emotions would have been strong for each other and a girl being their might have created rivelry and issues anyway that's just what I think. Reply and let me know what you think

.

Lothlorien

lotrfreak90 · 09-05-2004, 04:15 PM

Good point however i believe that tolkien didnt add women in the fellowship because then when time came around for eowyn to fight it would have less signifigance

Back to your point, i could definitly see boromir (compulsive as he is) having trouble with that but Aragorn has Arwen the hobbits (exept mabye merry and pippin) are pretty modest and gandalf is an istari and does not take part of worldly pleasures, oh and gimli and legolas arent really that type.

even though i say this i llike you thread

~landis~

(oh im a guy and am not trying to be sexist either(-

Encaitare · 09-05-2004, 05:53 PM

Although I hate to say it, I must: Middle-earth is primarily a man's world. This is not to say that there is an absence of strong female characters, because there certainly are Middle-earth women with strength and power. The most notable of these are Eowyn and Galadriel, but there are examples found in the Silmarillion, too. Still, it is the men who go off to war, not the women -- except Eowyn, of course, but if she had gone undisguised she certainly would have been turned straight around and sent back to her people.

I don't think there would be any competition in the Fellowship for a woman, pretty much for the reasons lotrfreak90 gave. The only thing I disagree with in what he said is about Boromir, because it is stated that he is more interested in warfare than women.

Plus, if you think about it logically, when the Fellowship was created they had to select from the people they had in Rivendell. I don't think there were any female elven warriors around!

Tuor of Gondolin · 09-05-2004, 08:23 PM

Of course, if Lobelia had gone instead of Sam she wouldn't
have put up with any guff from Gollum.

And come to think of it, Sauron missed a move, not giving one
of the rings to Queen Beruthiel.

But then, maybe Sauron
wasn't a cat person.

Lobelia · 09-05-2004, 09:31 PM

[QUOTE=Tuor of Gondolin]Of course, if Lobelia had gone instead of Sam she wouldn't
have put up with any guff from Gollum.

Too right I wouldn't! That Frodo is such a nice boy, not like his uncle Bilbo who kept avoiding me ... I would have looked after him and hit the King of the Ringwraiths on the head with my umbrella (sorry, Eowyn).

Oh, well. Men and male Hobbits, not to mention Oxford academics, like their boys' clubs, don't they? Guess I'll just have to stick to fighting off Sharkey's men at home.

The Perky Ent · 09-05-2004, 10:01 PM

Lol! Plus, at the time setting, womans sufferage was nonexsistant, so it would make sense it Tolkien kept the setting of Middle Earth parallel with the time period of the world at that time!

lotrfreak90 · 09-06-2004, 08:01 AM

You guys kinda got off topic

lothlorien · 09-16-2004, 06:20 AM

Hi thanks for the input everyone you've all got interesting oppinon's hee

and um I don't know who you said should've went instead of Sam but um good sujestion anyway seeya.

Lothlorien

Sapphire_Flame · 09-16-2004, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Aren't cats supposed to have come from Mordor?

"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor..." ~J.R.R Tolkien, Letters #219

Quote:

4---Farmer Maggot's wife

How about one of Pippin's sisters for the fourth hobbit? (Pearl, Pimpernel, or Pervinca)

I don't think this is why Tolkien excluded females from the Fellowship, but it's a darn good reason anyway. At regular points in the journey, the females would be *coughcough* indisposed. And believe me, it sucks to be out camping and trudging when you're *coughcough* indisposed. So, even if any women had the opportunity to go, I don't think they would choose to.

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

Encaitare · 09-16-2004, 08:11 PM

Quote:

I don't think this is why Tolkien excluded females from the Fellowship, but it's a darn good reason anyway. At regular points in the journey, the females would be *coughcough* indisposed. And believe me, it sucks to be out camping and trudging when you're *coughcough* indisposed. So, even if any women had the opportunity to go, I don't think they would choose to.

I believe that's what many of us were thinking, but no one wanted to come out and say it. So well done you! I can just see the annoying Mary-Sue whinging to the Fellowship... "No, really, guys, I need to stop! Please! I'm in a lot of pain and discomfort right now!" And since she's an annoying MS no one bothers to pay any attention to her. Ouch.

Thanks for providing the quote regarding cats, also.

HerenIstarion · 09-21-2004, 07:10 AM

Quote:

and I'm not being sexist I'm a girl

Can it not work the other way round?

But, not to stray (or to stray just a little bit):

I consider myself a resonable merman. I set certain rules, and I expect those rules to be obeyed ~ King Triton to his daughter, The Little Mermaid.

The Midde-Earth [Free People] societies simply do not allow for such a thing. There are roles, yer honours, and there are certain rules. See also The Role of Women in The Lord of the Rings

Bêthberry · 09-21-2004, 08:42 AM

Oh, look, everyone knows that since Eve ate apples, women cannot be trusted. And it's got nothing to do with duplicity. It's that servient, helpmeet instinct coupled with (yes, coupled

) their gift to be receptive and stimulated by males. They would probably have been so desirous to be sympathetic and understanding not only to Gollem but to Saruman and even Sauron as well that, well, they would have been sucked in just like Saruman was by his desire for knowledge.

*coughs*

09-05-2004, 06:37 AM	#1
lothlorien Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Stalking the fellowship Posts: 38	Why there were no women in the fellowship Hi I don't know if this has already been done but I was wondering the other day why Tolkien made the fellowship be all guys. At first I thought ok maybe in his time women weren't meant to fight but as I thought about it more I came up with another reason reply and let me know what you think. I think the reason tolkien didn't put any women in the fellowship is because it might have lead to problems within the fellowship itself (and I'm not being sexist I'm a girl). I mean if you think about it 9 guys would probably do better than if you had 8 guys and 1 woman or 7 guys and 2 women I think it might have created problem's and I did say might I mean guys travelling for so many months with one or 2 women I think emotions would have been strong for each other and a girl being their might have created rivelry and issues anyway that's just what I think. Reply and let me know what you think . Lothlorien Last edited by lothlorien; 09-05-2004 at 06:37 AM. Reason: fixing the title

09-05-2004, 08:23 PM	#4
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	Of course, if Lobelia had gone instead of Sam she wouldn't have put up with any guff from Gollum. And come to think of it, Sauron missed a move, not giving one of the rings to Queen Beruthiel. But then, maybe Sauron wasn't a cat person. __________________ Aure Entuluva!

09-05-2004, 10:01 PM	#6
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,297	Lol! Plus, at the time setting, womans sufferage was nonexsistant, so it would make sense it Tolkien kept the setting of Middle Earth parallel with the time period of the world at that time! __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

09-06-2004, 08:01 AM	#7
lotrfreak90 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Penns Woods (pensylvania) Posts: 12	You guys kinda got off topic __________________ Landis L. T. Z. _____________________________________________ And they shall soar on wings like eagles, they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not grow feint, those who hope in the lord. {Isaiah 40:31}

09-16-2004, 06:20 AM	#8
lothlorien Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Stalking the fellowship Posts: 38	thanks for replying Hi thanks for the input everyone you've all got interesting oppinon's hee and um I don't know who you said should've went instead of Sam but um good sujestion anyway seeya. Lothlorien

09-05-2004, 04:15 PM	#2
lotrfreak90 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Penns Woods (pensylvania) Posts: 12	I like you point but... Good point however i believe that tolkien didnt add women in the fellowship because then when time came around for eowyn to fight it would have less signifigance Back to your point, i could definitly see boromir (compulsive as he is) having trouble with that but Aragorn has Arwen the hobbits (exept mabye merry and pippin) are pretty modest and gandalf is an istari and does not take part of worldly pleasures, oh and gimli and legolas arent really that type. even though i say this i llike you thread ~landis~ (oh im a guy and am not trying to be sexist either(-

09-05-2004, 05:53 PM	#3
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Although I hate to say it, I must: Middle-earth is primarily a man's world. This is not to say that there is an absence of strong female characters, because there certainly are Middle-earth women with strength and power. The most notable of these are Eowyn and Galadriel, but there are examples found in the Silmarillion, too. Still, it is the men who go off to war, not the women -- except Eowyn, of course, but if she had gone undisguised she certainly would have been turned straight around and sent back to her people. I don't think there would be any competition in the Fellowship for a woman, pretty much for the reasons lotrfreak90 gave. The only thing I disagree with in what he said is about Boromir, because it is stated that he is more interested in warfare than women. Plus, if you think about it logically, when the Fellowship was created they had to select from the people they had in Rivendell. I don't think there were any female elven warriors around!

09-05-2004, 09:31 PM	#5
Lobelia Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 150	[QUOTE=Tuor of Gondolin]Of course, if Lobelia had gone instead of Sam she wouldn't have put up with any guff from Gollum. Too right I wouldn't! That Frodo is such a nice boy, not like his uncle Bilbo who kept avoiding me ... I would have looked after him and hit the King of the Ringwraiths on the head with my umbrella (sorry, Eowyn). Oh, well. Men and male Hobbits, not to mention Oxford academics, like their boys' clubs, don't they? Guess I'll just have to stick to fighting off Sharkey's men at home.

09-21-2004, 08:42 AM	#12
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	Oh, look, everyone knows that since Eve ate apples, women cannot be trusted. And it's got nothing to do with duplicity. It's that servient, helpmeet instinct coupled with (yes, coupled ) their gift to be receptive and stimulated by males. They would probably have been so desirous to be sympathetic and understanding not only to Gollem but to Saruman and even Sauron as well that, well, they would have been sucked in just like Saruman was by his desire for knowledge. coughs __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.