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Old 08-21-2004, 07:43 PM   #1
Fordim Hedgethistle
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Pipe Paired characters in LotR

A while back I started a thread on monsters and the nature of evil in The Lord of the Rings. The discussion quickly turned to how the novel is organised around different patterns of monsters and baddies – I won’t recap the conversation here since it’s not really my point (hence my beginning a new thread). But that discussion did get me thinking about how consistently LotR works in terms of patterns that it sets up between characters, rather than just focusing on individual characters.

For example: Sam and Frodo are not just friends, but two ‘halves’ of a necessary whole. Frodo is the self-sacrificing, wiser of the two, but he gives in to despair; whereas Sam is more insular in his thinking, but never loses hope. This pair is reflected to some extent in the pairing of Merry and Pippin. I really think that Merry is to Pippin as Frodo is to Sam, and vice versa. Like Frodo with Sam, Merry is wiser, and more experienced than Pippin, and he is overcome by the despair of the Black Breath. And like Sam with Frodo, Pippin is younger and narrower in his view, but his spirits never fail, and his faith and hope is what saves Faramir.

Frodo and Sam are the ‘moral’ pairing, in that their struggle is, well, a moral one in which they must make good choices (in the sense of morally good, not just strategically correct choices). Merry and Pippin are the more ‘historical’ pairing, in that their struggles are, well, historical, in that they must make good strategic choices (that are still morally good). I’m not suggesting that there is some absolute split between Frodo/Sam and Merry/Pippin but that the two pairs, when put side-by-side, have a lot to say to and about each other. These two pairs of hobbits give us a full picture of hobbity virtue.

These kinds of patterns go on and on (and on). There’s the connections between Aragorn and Arwen to Tom Bombadil and Goldberry. Neither pair is complete without both halves – the masculine and the feminine. Whereas Aragorn and Arwen are the historical figures, however, Tom and Goldberry are folkloric and timeless. (This particular connection was made for me in the Chapter by Chapter discussion where it was pointed out that the first hint of Aragorn comes in the novel from Tom).

So I suppose that this thread addresses a number of questions. What other paired-pairings are there in the book? What do they tell us about the characters involved. Most significantly, what does this pattern suggest? That no one character alone is truly heroic? That only in the relations between characters can full heroic virtue be expressed?

Why so many paired characters?

And what about the significance of gender in these pairings? Are all the male-female pairs somehow the same? What about those characters (like Frodo) who are unpaired with females?

Finally, I have one particular pairing that I find very, very interesting: Boromir-Faramir and Faramir-Eowyn. I’ve long thought that Boromir and Eowyn were a lot alike, and the way in which Eowyn takes Boromir’s ‘place’ in Faramir’s affections re-enforces this. I think that it’s entirely possible to see Boromir and Eowyn as a natural pair that speaks volumes to other aspects of the book.
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Old 08-21-2004, 10:11 PM   #2
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1420! Good topic

This is an interesting topic you have Fordhim. Your point about Boromir-Faramir, Faramir-Eowyn...etc is a good observation and I would like to expand on it.

With Faramir and Boromir, they are basically complete opposites, well not total opposites but they have opposite characteristics. Boromir is the strong, broad fighter, Faramir is more like his father, wiser, uses cunning, more brains then bronze. Faramir is a comprable fighter but not one of Boromir's stature. Put them together they make a whole.

A little in depth on how Boromir effected Faramir, was with the "ring." Faramir has the ring within his grasps? Right? Yet he did the noble thing and declined it, in fact flat out rejected it. Now, this has been debated many times, but why did Faramir reject the ring? Some say he had more numenorean blood, others say he was wiser then Boromir, since I mean as Denethor puts it was "Gandalf's pupil." My theory is Faramir learned from Boromir's mistake. Faramir held Boromir above anyone in Gondor, thought he was the greatest. When he discovered Boromir had fallen to the ring and died because of it, he most likely in all that time of "thinking" he did, said well if the ring kill such a man as Boromir, I can only imagine what it would do to me, I don't even want to see it. But, anyway that's my theory on things.

I think you're right the whole Eowyn sort of steps into Faramir's life and fills that "Boromir" spot, and fills it more then a brother would, I will say, lol. She has many of the same qualities as Boromir, great fighter, has to be to be able to slay the Witch-King (although wouldn't have done it without Merry) and of course she loves fighting.

I don't really know if this is off topic but I'm going to say it anyway. There's this deep bond between Aragorn and Eomer (that the movie doesn't show well and I wish it had).

When they first meet, Aragorn is on what I would think the "brink of insanity." Boromir just died, Merry and Pippin were captured (and very well could have been dead), Frodo and Sam just sort of left, so Aragorn was really doubting his decisions and wish he hadn't of taken command, was actually wishing that Gandalf hadn't of "died." Eomer at this time, is probably knowingly, about to be thrown in the slammer. Yet you see these two SOON TO BE KINGS create a bond, Eomer says he will let Aragorn look for his friends, and take the horses, if he promises to bring the "sword" to Rohan. Which Aragorn does. I think this bond sets the stage for the strong, future, friendship between Rohan and Gondor. Eventhough, they are about to be named King (Eomer unknowingly) they had a lot of "learning" to do, and benefitted from eachother. In the end you see that friendship, and that leadership, between the two. After Theoden's death Eomer rallies the Rohirrim, Aragorn comes with 50 ships of men following him, and when they meet on Pelennor, my favorite line of the book...

Eomer: Let this be the hour when we draw swords together.

That is the point when I believe their true "kingship" quality shows. I would believe without one of them, the other wouldn't have succeeded.
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Old 08-22-2004, 11:21 AM   #3
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I hope this won't distort Fordim's intention but some of the pairings that interest me are the positive/negative ones Gollum and Frodo/Bilbo, Gandalf/Saruman Denethor/Imrahil ..... Imrahil takes the role that Denethor should have taken had he not succumbed to despair ...... leading his people in the face of overwhelming odds and ensuring a smooth takeover for the king... but these maybe belong in the other thread ...

More in the spirit of this one how about pairing Galadriel and Eowyn? Both are women whose spirit and ambition go beyond the normal scope of their gender (one of Galadriel'soriginal names was Nerwen - Man-maiden) ... noble women alone in families of powerful men, physically strong and fearless. They are similar in appearance, the two white ladies - tall, blonde, slender, and are described in similar terms; there is that blend of aloofness and vulnerability about both ... and both make significant choices to renounce what they once desired and choose what is, in the end, the right thing for them.....
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Old 08-22-2004, 11:38 AM   #4
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And how about this one: Yavanna and Aule. Talk about opposites attracting! ...

---

Yavanna: Now let thy children beware! For there shall walk a power in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril."

Aulë: Nonetheless, they will have need of wood.

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She's the embodiment of Nature, and he's the more industrial type... yet this seems to be more than your average marital tiff! They seem to be happily wed, though, so who knows?
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Old 08-22-2004, 12:01 PM   #5
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They are perhaps complementary rather than antagonistic...... but it sounds like a classic Cancer/Capricorn pairing to me... lol - I was looking at a horoscope book yesterdayand one paragraph said that that Cancer /Cappy was likely to conflict ....and two paragraphs later it gave Cappy as Cancer's best shot for marriage!!!!!! hmmmm
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Old 08-22-2004, 12:03 PM   #6
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The Frodo-Sam pairing is interesting - Frodo is ultimately on a spiritual journey towards (or through) death to a spiritual life in the West. Sam's journey on the other hand will end in marriage & family. If there is this 'pairing' of the two, does it represent in some sense a 'single being' torn in two - one part towards the spiritual life, one to 'hearth & home'? Of course, in a sense we could see a 'distorted' pairing of Frodo & Boromir - both obsessed with doing something with the Ring, & both single mindedly rejecting the possibility of family life in pursuiit of their quest. So, does the renunciation (Frodo) or rejection (Boromir) of family ultimately & inevitably lead to loss of life?

Tolkien's ideal seems to be marriage & family, its his happy ending - for those that have them. A happy ending = marriage & children. Yet marriage always seems to be seen as the reward for struggle - Sam may start out as Frodo's 'partner', yet he ends as Rosie's, while Frodo ends up partnerless. So partnership always seems to begin as a same sex thing, where sex barely comes into it (sexual partnership always comes as a reward for struggle, & only seems to enter some character's minds once the struggle has been achieved & they are able to rest - I won;t pursue this as its off topic, but there's a fascinating article in the latest Mallorn, 'Warm beds are good:sex & libido in Tolkien's writing' by Ty Rosenthal, who points out 'Its telling that Sam Gamgee needs to be called to join Frodo at his departure from Bag End not because he has his hand down rosie's blouse, but because he is saying good-bye to the beer barrel'

Of course, the negative pairings abound - Gandalf/Saruman, Aragorn/Boromir, Boromir/Faramir, Denethor/Theoden, Denethor/Eowyn (in the sense that both face apparently ultimate depair, & one gives in & kills himself while the other stands &fights on the field - effectively Eowyn will do what Denethor will not). We could even find a pairing of Tom & Goldberry with Galadriel & Celeborn (or more significantly perhaps with the Ents & the Entwives).

So we have two kinds of pairings, it seems to me - the starting out pairings, which are usually same sex ones, where the partners seem to be reflections/aspects of one being, & the final, mature pairings of marriage partners, which is the ideal - unless one considers (& Tolkien may have done) the ideal to be the spiritual journey to 'God'.
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Old 08-22-2004, 12:58 PM   #7
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A pairing that struck me from the first time I read the Silmarillion (and UT) is, perhaps not too surprisingly, Turin and Tuor. Very similar in backgrounds but, even exclusive of the debatable (in various threads) effect of Morgoth's curse, one was suffused with a surfeit of pride and touchiness while the other, despite an arguably even more troubled early years, did not get too full of himself. Of course, Turin was more "extreme" in many ways, including the strong affection and committment to him he evoked in men and elves, and as a warrior.
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Old 08-22-2004, 04:13 PM   #8
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A very nice point about Aragorn/Eomer, Boromir88. But we can go further with this. Aragorn and Eomer are the returning/triumphant Kings and they are meeting in the midst of a conflict between their chief adversaries (Saruman and Sauron. It’s Gandalf, isn’t it, who says that their two foes conspired to bring Merry and Pippin to Fangorn?). So how does this sound: Aragorn is to Eomer, as Sauron is to Saruman? Obviously, the relationships involved are completely opposite in nature insofar as Aragorn and Eomer meet and begin with distrust but look forward to a time when they will fight together, whereas Saruman and Sauron are pretending to be allies while each plots the downfall of the other. But while we thus have the good rulers on the one hand and the evil on the other, it does point to some kind of interconnectedness I think: Aragorn is unquestionably good to Sauron’s evil, but he is clearly more powerful and noble than Eomer. In fact, now that I think about it, Aragorn presents Eomer with pretty much the same kind of choice that Sauron presents Saruman with: “help me or hinder me. Choose swiftly!” Just like with Sauron, there’s really only two choices with Aragorn: either you are with him or against him, and upon your choice depends your fate – good or evil. In this sense, I think that the Sauron/Aragorn pairing might be one of the most important in the book, in that this pairing represents in starkest (purest?) terms the choice and difference between good and evil??

Davem: as always, count on you to take a thread topic and make it even better! I very much like the idea of an evolution from masculine partnerships to domestic marriages, but as is usual with ‘tidy’ patterns, I think this one might be a bit too limiting. As your own list of negative pairings demonstrates, there are lots of ways for two men to be bound to one another that is bad (Gandalf/Saruman – what about slinker/stinker?). What’s more, there is at least one unholy and monstrous ‘marriage’ between Shelob and Sauron. That is, I realise, a perversion of the ideal expressed best by Aragorn/Arwen and Sam/Rosie, but it still is a union of masculine and feminine, but of a much darker and evil nature. So while I’m not attempting to refute or reject your point, I think there’s probably more to say.

On the topic of Eowyn and Galadriel, raised by Mithalwen, there’s another neat indication of their paired relationships that actually furthers the pairing of Merry and Frodo I spoke about earlier. Galadriel is the one who defends, and even in a sense accompanies, Frodo in his contest with Shelob; Eowyn does the same for Merry against the Witch King. The more I think about it, the more I like this Frodo/Merry pairing – and this Eowyn/Galadriel pairing.

Fascinating tidbit Encaitare: it really does show how this dependence upon pairing, particularly between genders, goes to the very heart and root (to mix metaphors) of Middle-Earth!

But to address a question I posed in the initial post: why so many pairs? I still don’t have much of an answer, but could it have something to do with the fact that evil is so consistently organised around and identified with singularity?:

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.


And is this perhaps the mistake that Boromir, Denethor, Eowyn and Gollum all make? To think that they can and should be alone in their lives’ journeys? That they only need rely on themselves? If I’m getting this right, then Eowyn’s ability to recover from this mistake when the others do not bears attention…
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Old 11-04-2004, 02:42 PM   #9
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1420!

I know this is a thread that has long been "passed." But, I have just found this interesting ANALOGY (English class all over again, lol), and I'd hate to make it a thread of it's own, because I don't think it would spark much debate, so basically I'm trying to pop this thread back up here and see how you all think of this "analogy.

Boromir is to the Ring, as Denethor is to the Palantir.

Both the ring and the palantir are each person's, let's say "toys." Or something they greatly "have" or want to "have." It's interesting how Boromir is Denethor's sons, and they both have this "source," this "thing" to bring them to their deaths. Boromir goes for the Ring, and arguably the Palantir drives Denethor mad.
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Old 11-04-2004, 02:48 PM   #10
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I think the key term with Boromir/Ring and Denethor/Palantir is despair. Father and son both despair of the ability of Men -- unaided -- to defeat Sauron. Boromir's despair of his own ability to save his kingdom leads him to the desperate attempt to take the Ring; Denethor's despair drives him mad.

They both sort of get it: "Not by strength of arms alone will this war be won" (or whatever it is that Aragorn/Gandalf? says). This much they realise, but they are unable to see any other hope. If the sword is not sufficient to save them, what is?Boromir gives way to the illusion that the Ring will save them, Denethor gives way to the illusion that nothing can save them.

This all highlights how the motivating factor for the heroes is not faith in themselves, but faith in. . .well. . .the benevolence of the universe. In other words, they cling to hope, despite all evidence to the contrary.
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Old 11-04-2004, 02:56 PM   #11
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This is one of my fuzzier ideas but is there any significance that, Denethor, as legitimate steward of Gondor has the "right" to use the palantir (although his despair overwhelms him and he does not have the strength of Aragorn)? The essay in Unfinished Tales is interesting here, noting the mental strain use of the palantiri had on the user. Boromir if I remember correctly, tries to argue at the council of Elrond that Isildur's ring should return to Gondor but of course Isildur was not the rightful master of the ring as her was of the Palantir.
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Old 11-07-2004, 01:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle
And is this perhaps the mistake that Boromir, Denethor, Eowyn and Gollum all make? To think that they can and should be alone in their lives’ journeys? That they only need rely on themselves? If I’m getting this right, then Eowyn’s ability to recover from this mistake when the others do not bears attention…
I totally agree with this. Boromir, though part of the Fellowship, seems to be having a journey of his own, as pointed out by Boromir88 in this CbC post. All the others have agreed to go with Frodo to Mordor despite their fears or any other hesitations, but Boromir alone wanted to go to Minas Tirith. (Well, Aragorn was pretty undecided then, but we can count him out). And then Denethor, after finding out that his son is in grave danger of dying, succumbs to despair and wished to face the situation alone, leaving Pippin waiting outside the chamber and refusing to seek Gandalf's counsel. Gollum, like Boromir, was traveling with Sam and Frodo, but deep inside he has something else in mind, something he could not share with Sam and Frodo because it involved harming them. Good thing Eowyn has chosen to let Merry ride with her, showing that somehow she has desire for company (although they were barely talking to each other).

One pair I have desired to point out for so long is Denethor and Pippin. They are the complete opposites: Denethor being the serious steward who thinks of nothing but his obligation, and Pippin having the mirthful spirit which was being suppressed due to the circumstance he is in. More obvious is the fact that the steward is tall, not only as others see him (physically) but also as he sees himself--after all, he is the ruling steward of Gondor. Pippin, on the other hand, is small in stature, and has no desire to himself as someone above others, but humbly subjected himself to Denethor's authority. Eventually, as Denethor was being showered with worries to the point of death, Pippin tried to balance this out by suggesting that he consult Gandalf. But Denethor refused and gave in to hopelessness, and so died in the end. Pippin meanwhile survived, for he was confident of the faith he had in Gandalf.

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Old 11-08-2004, 05:24 PM   #13
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Ring Nice topic.

Why are there so many pairs? Well my answer would have to be something simple and short, unlike everyone elses.

If you have 2 people, they can both use their qualities to help each other. Ex. Frodo is strong enough (physically, mentally, and emotionally) to bear the Ring, but anyone would give in to its power sooner or later. So Frodo is the Ringbearer, and must carry the burden, but Sam is there to help him when things go wrong. In my opinion, the Ring could not have been destroyed without Sam. I`m not talking about Gollum, being caught in Shelob`s Lair, and putting on the Ring and attempting to leave instead of destroying it. Yes, Sam helped in all of these (except the latter, but I believe he would have done something about it), but lets say none of this happened. Frodo makes it to Mordor without too much trouble. Just one problem. Sam isn`t with him. If Mordor were empty of everything, except Sauron and Mount Doom, I do not think he would be able to destroy the Ring. If Sam were there he would give Frodo hope, but most of all, he would be company to Frodo. Just being there, I think would make a big difference. Now put it all back together. Sam gives this hope and company, thus helping Frodo with his burden.
I`m having problems wording things today. I hope I made sense.

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Old 01-03-2005, 01:29 AM   #14
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Pipe Something that came to me during the whole "holiday vacation" business.

Rosie and Erendis: The Untameables

At first glance one would see nothing in common with the Númenórean Aldarion and the Hobbit Sam. Look more closely and you’ll see the untameable spirits that reside in them. Aldarion was moved by something he cannot comprehend (perhaps the same hand that put the Númenóreans in Vinyalondë centuries later?); Sam was moved by his fierce devotion to Frodo.

How did their other halves react to these passions? Let us see:
“Hullo, Sam!” said Rosie. “Where’ve you been? They said you were dead; but I’ve been expecting you since the Spring. You haven’t hurried, have you?”
“Perhaps not,” said Sam abashed. “But I’m hurrying now. . . . ”
“Well, be off with you!” said Rosie. “If you’ve been looking after Mr. Frodo after all this while, what d’you want to leave him for, as soon as things look dangerous?”
This was too much for Sam. It needed a week’s answer, or none at all. He turned away and mounted his horse. But as he started off, Rosie ran down the steps.
“I think you look fine,” she said. “Go on now! But take care of yourself, and come straight back as soon as you have settled the ruffians.”
LR VI 8
~*~
“You come late, my lord.” [Erendis] said. “I had long ceased to expect you. I fear that there is no such welcome prepared for you as I had made when you were due.”
“Mariners are not hard to please,” [Aldarion] said.
“That is well,” she said; and she turned back into the house and left him. . . .
“You leave more promptly than you came, my lord,” she said. “I hope that (being a mariner) you have not found this house of women irksome already to go thus before your business is done. Indeed, what business brought you hither? May I learn it before you leave?”
“I was told in Armenelos that my wife was here, and had removed my daughter hither,” he answered. “As to the wife I am mistaken, it seems, but have I not a daughter?”
“You had one some years ago,” she said. “But my daughter has not yet risen.”
“Let her rise, while I go for my horse,” said Aldarion.
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Warmth and Coldness. Acceptance and Rejection. Patience and well . . . Impatience. What more antonyms can I use to show the difference between the two reactions?

But why the different responses? Pride is the first thing that jumps out. Aldarion and Erendis fenced the moment they met and the resulting collision of egos killed any hope of reconciliation. The hobbits had no such pretensions. If Rosie had any hint of pride in her, she would not have eagerly showed herself to Sam when he came suddenly a-knocking.

Another element is a mutual sense of purpose. Rosie knew Sam was needed to do something important (if only she knew how important ), and did not hold Sam back from his responsibilities.

Erendis, because she had no heart beyond Númenor, did not realise Aldarion’s purpose (oh, I don’t know—he may just have planted the seeds of the Last Alliance of Elves and Men), and thus gave him no support. No, worse—she made his job hard for him.

Of course one might argue that the fulfilment of Sam’s purpose was within the lifetime of Rosie, whereas Aldarion’s was not (it had to wait until the time of Ciryatur before the first fruits of his actions were seen). But then Erendis should still have been patient. After all, Sam’s devotion to Frodo did not end at the fulfilment of the Quest. She could still have prevented Aldarion from being torn in two (as Tar-Meneldur had done when he abdicated). But her pride and her inhibited mindset got in the way of that. And thus she failed to tame the untameable.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:01 PM   #15
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Another episode in the smash hit series "Formendacil Resurrects Vigorous Old Threads" (FR.VOR, in case you're wondering how I'd abbreviate that).

Perhaps it's my recent focus on "The Uruk-Hai" in Book III, but this one caught my attention, since that's the first chapter that is Merry- and Pippin-centric, but there's another pairing in that chapter that seems to have been overlooked in this thread, which is think could use mentioning: Uglúk and Grishnákh, which also brings up that other orkish pair: Shagrat and Gorbag.

Tolkien certainly liked to use two-person sets of characters, but I wonder if this thread doesn't go above-and-beyond in trying to find them. Frodo-Gollum, for example, doesn't feel complete to me--it feels like it ought to be Frodo-Sam-Gollum.

There's a whole pile of brother-pairs in The Silmarillion:
Melkor/Manwë
Námo/Irmo
Elwë/Olwë
Fingolfin/Finarfin
Maedhros/Maglor
Celegorm/Curufin
Amrod/Amras
Angrod/Aegnor
Húrin/Húor
Belegund/Baragund
Elrond/Elros

There are other pairs that could be named, but these stand head-and-shoulders (to my mind anyway) above pairings like Fëanor/Fingolfin or Tuor/Maeglin, because parallels between characters exist in all sorts of fiction, but this list is a collection of characters that are, frequently, mentioned in a breath together. From The Lord of the Rings, these are the pairs that give me the same vibe:

Merry/Pippin
Elladan/Elrohir
Legolas/Gimli

...but Gandalf/Saruman does not. In the case of the wizards, I think the balance of power between the two is always definitely weighted: "There can only be One White Wizard!" so that either Gandalf is Saruman's subordinate or Saruman is no longer a member of the Order.

And this makes me think about characters that really have no pairing. The character par excellence where this is concerned is Sauron--even moreso than Morgoth, because at least Morgoth has Manwë, whereas Sauron has no peer (in the Second and Third Ages, anyway--I could hear an argument that Lúthien is his counterbalance in the Lay of Leithien, but though he has many opponents once he becomes THE Dark Lord, even Gandalf is not, alone, his peer).

Elrond kind of feels like this at times too, though sometimes he gets put together with Gandalf as an originator of the Fellowship and sometimes with Galadriel as an Elven-ruler with a ring. Galadriel--despite being part of a married couple!--also really feels like someone peerless (though I am not thinking in the quasi-Marian sense that Tolkien seems to espouse in his latest writings).

As I said: a vigorous thread, worth the rereading.
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Old 09-13-2014, 06:02 AM   #16
Tar-Jêx
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The Legolas/Gimli relationship sure is an interesting one.

They start off with the traditional spite towards each other, but that evolves in competition.
The competition develops into them enjoying their Uruk kill count.
After realising they are having fun, they start to become friends, until Return of the King, where they are practically inseparable.

Aragorn did have influence, as they both looked up to him as a leader, and he to them as companions.
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:44 AM   #17
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Delving into the Silmarillion, how about Tolkien's favorites, Beren and
Luthien? Not only a couple overcoming adversity but using their various
strengths together to get one of Morgoth's "Crown Jewels".

And of course there's Beren's difficult relationship to Luthien's possessive daddy.
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