The Ennui of the Elves

[Lalaith]

I've been mulling over these two quotes from LotR.

The first is from Treebeard:

Elves began it, of course, waking trees up and teaching them to speak and learning their tree-talk. They always wished to talk to everything, the old Elves did.

The second is Gildor, speaking to Frodo:

The Elves have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are little concerned with the ways of hobbits, or of any other creatures upon earth.

This illustrates how radically the elves have changed over the ages, from being curious, proactive and intellectually inquisitive, to this rather aloof, introspective, even arrogant race.
When did the rot of ennui set in, I wonder? Even in the First age, the Green Elves were I think always more insular than their Noldorin brethren (judging by their differing reaction to the coming of men into Beleriand) and even than the Avari of Eriador and further east - who seem to have been interested in mortals (judging by what Tolkien says about the language similarities between Elvish and the speech of the Edain in the Sil.)
Is the attitude Gildor (a Noldo) conveys just Third Age fin-de-siecle weariness, or did Elvish disengagement with the outside world begin shortly after the Great Journey?

[Bombadil]

Elves began it, of course, waking trees up and teaching them to speak and learning their tree-talk. They always wished to talk to everything, the old Elves did.

I believe it was all just a matter of time and events. The trees were there before the elves, and before the elves knew fear, hatred and mistrust I'm sure they were glad to be open to any other creature or thing besides themselves. But as time moved on they were hit with the constant destruction of Melkor, the kin-slaying of the Noldor, the animosity between different elven races created by Fëanor's actions, the mixed emotions towards the second born, the betrayal at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad...

The list goes on and on, and for an immortal race these kind of events won't be dead and forgotten in memory, they will live on with the very fire of anger that was kindled the first time, or the lament will stay just as sorrowful. That would be my reasoning, that the world they lived in had shown them reasons not to interact with the outside world. Perhaps it all started in Doriath with the need for a hidden kingdom?

[Lalaith]

The Doriath point is an excellent one, Bombadil, and one that got me thinking further. The 'exclusion' policy practiced by Thingol may have been indicative of a characteristic of the Teleri in general.
And perhaps the Noldor and the Avari had more in common, were from the start more 'outward' looking?
I think I read somewhere (a Michael Martinez essay?) that in one version of events, the Avari were mostly made up of the same original Cuivienan tribe as the Noldor. Does anyone know any more about this?

[Osse]

Lalaith, think perhaps you are being a bit overharsh on the Elves of the Third Age. Though they apply themselves as a race very little to the other peoples of Middle Earth, at least openly, they are still (for the most part) open and warm to those that they cross. The race was waning, the Elves themselves knew it. They no longer had the power or the people to afford the luxury of being able to aid and meddle with other races. I see how this can be percieved as aloofness, but I just feel that the race as it was in the Third Age, was in no position to really get involved in the doing of the other Peoples. From the experiences, especially in the First and early Second ages, they realised that this involvement often lead the race to become enthralled in troubles. The whole of the First Age was one turmoil followed by another for the Elves, and their quest to help in the Second Age was a disaster - they were again decieved.

I conclude that rather than becoming arrogant, the race had merely become very conservative and careful - they (probably unwittingly) figured that if they kept themselves to themselves and didn't stick their necks on the block, then they wouldn't get into the same sort of trouble as they were frequently in during the first two ages. Also, the knowledge that the contributions they could make would be minute due to their diminishing power and populations would have been another reason to keep themselves to themselves.

The Elves were not arrogant (well, come on they were, but not completely!) but were rather experiencing a period of harsh self-preservation. You forget, the three Elven kingdoms that still remained, still sent aid when needed... Battle of Five Armies etc.

Also, as far as the other ages went, the Third Age, for the most part, was the most uneventful - apart from some key events, it was mostly empty... this would also be another fact to consider.

I hate to have just typed what I have typed, as the race of Elves annoys me quite a lot, but I had to put aside my contempt and write what I saw.

Regards to all, especially Lalaith and Mr. Bombadil!!

[Mithalwen]

Elves annoying?!?!?!? Eeeeeeeeeekkkk


But I am not sure it is arrogance ........ more perhaps that as they either face dwindling or departure the Noldor are "disengaging" with Middle Earth rather as the terminally ill may mentally withdraw themselves from the world .... they will either stay and follow the isolated simple life inthe manner of the silvan elves until they fade or they will pass away and leave it forever - Gildor's company are saying goodbye - having a last look around as it were - hardly likely to get involved in something new.... Also it must be hard for immortals to get involved with such transient beings at least as individuals ..... although the Mirkwood Elves have dealings with Lakemen for practical reasons ... only Elrond (who is of course not fully elf...) really seems to get involved with individuals in the third age, and they were mainly the long lived dunedain......... Think of what Legolas says about how Elves feel the passing of time - both slow and fast - themselves changing little but caught in a fast flowing stream...


And it has to be said that since few hobbits it seems had any curiousity regarding the outside world..... the elves may have thought it kinder to leave them to it... and they were very kind to the ones whom they encountered........


I think the Last Alliance was the turning point .... After the fall of Gilgalad the Elves retreated into more enclosed and defended communities ...... becoming more passive but assisting as necessary on a smaller scale - like the elves of Rivendell riding to the aid of Earnur at Fornost or the Elvenking aiding the men of Dale.......

[Encaitare]

The elves lost much of their power and prominence as their numbers in Middle-earth dwindled, and they no longer had great armies such as they had in the First Age, or the years of the Stars before Men walked the land. They are simply weary of staying in one place for so long, and figure that since they are leaving, much of what is going on is not their problem. Elrond and Galadriel and Glorfindel, for example, know better, but some of the Elves just want out, it seems.