Feedback and Suggestion Box

[Mister Underhill]

Greetings, Chapter-by-Chapter readers.

Since we're in this thing for the long haul, and now that we've all had a chance to test-drive the project with the Foreword thread, I thought I'd establish a place for feedback and suggestions.

Any suggestions on how to improve the read-through or the discussion structure we have set up are welcome (though of course we reserve all rights as to which ones will actually be implemented).

Things you might comment on are the pacing of the read-through, ways to focus or enrich the discussion, or ways to make this thing as friendly as possible to your fellow members.

[Fingolfin II]

Some chapters in Lotr are longer than others, so I think it would be a good idea to break them up into smaller sections to make it easier for everyone to follow. Also, there hasn't been much posting by a wide variety of members- only a few people have contributed so far. I think posts should be more open and accessible to everyone in the Barrow-Downs, not just a few more 'learned' people.

That's my two cents on what's looking to be a promising new forum!

[Firefoot]

Also, there hasn't been much posting by a wide variety of members- only a few people have contributed so far. I think posts should be more open and accessible to everyone in the Barrow-Downs, not just a few more 'learned' people.

My opinion on this is that in starting with the foreward there has been a lot of 'deep' discussions, and many of the posts have been made by some of the 'more-learned' BDers, many of whom frequently post in the Books section (Not that this is bad!). I can see why this might discourage some people from posting, especially if they do not feel they have nothing to contribute. What I hope is that in moving into the actual chapters more people will contribute to discussion.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Firefoot's got it in one:

What I hope is that in moving into the actual chapters more people will contribute to discussion.

Once we're into the book itself, or even the prologue, I plan on getting involved. I think once we hit "fun" chapters, more people will want to throw in their two cents. Not that the other stuff isn't worth a read... However, maybe some people, like me, just finished reading the books straight through and only want to comment on some things?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'd like to see a wider range of people too. All too often the presence of lengthly posts in academic language seems to deter others from sharing their thoughts, but that is not the intention of the members who write those posts. I don't have the answers, but I think it would deter certain members from the discussion if they were required somehow to tailor their posts to suit the needs of others.

Perhaps a more determined promotion of the idea that anyone with an insight to share should consider posting in the discussions would be more helpful. The 'learned' members are always eager to hear a fresh opinion, particularly from new members; and nobody who has participated so far is the sort of person to dismiss someone's views because they aren't written up like a university paper.

I agree that the foreword isn't the most interesting part of the book for a lot of readers. I'm sure that the Prologue and A Long-Expected Party will draw a lot more people into the discussion who are more interested in Hobbits than allegory versus applicability. In fact, the lighter tone of those sections may well be just what the doctor ordered (and that doctor is not necessarily a PhD).

[Alatariel Telemnar]

Some members might find it uncomfortable to post in such a thread that has had posts that are “like a university paper”. They could feel that there is nothing for them to contribute, as others have said. Or possibly find that whatever they say might make others 'judge' them as a member (considering, “many of the posts have been made by some of the 'more-learned' BDers, many of whom frequently post in the Books section”), if what they say is not as ‘high standard’ as everything else. It could simply be that this is not the most interesting section of the book for them. Yes, I hope others will post more in the next few sections and chapters.

[Alchisiel]

As a new comer to LotR and to this site, I would like to comment as to why I wouldn't feel comfortable posting to this forum. It's not intentional of course but I'm very intimidated by most of you because most of you have read the books over and over again while the newbies have read them at least once. I myself am now reading LotR for the second time. All of that knowledge can be quite intimidating.

The only reason I checked out this forum was because I finally got the guts to do it. I wanted to see what you talked about to see if I could join in on the conversation. There are quite a lot of you that speak very eloquently and that can be intimidating also. For me personally I have always been intimidated by someone who speaks so eloquently because it makes me feel so common.

These are just my feelings on the matter and I could be totally wrong about the whole thing. From what I've read you folks were hinting about it so I thought I would take the initiative and just say it point blank. Hopefully I have not offended anyone because that was not my intent.

[Son of Númenor]

Alchisiel

It's not intentional of course but I'm very intimidated by most of you because most of you have read the books over and over again while the newbies have read them at least once. I myself am now reading LotR for the second time. All of that knowledge can be quite intimidating.

I can see how it might be intimidating to jump in on discussions like those that went on in the Foreword thread, but when we read the book chapter-by-chapter, try to think of it as your first time reading it. Just write any observations you make, any feelings you feel towards characters and events, and any emotions you experience while reading. If you do that, then it does not matter how many times you have read the chapter in question before. It does not matter if the person who posts before you has read the book 3,087 times and you are reading it for the first time.

This endeavour seems simple to me: read the chapters, share what you think, and discuss your thoughts to gain a better understanding of your personal experience with The Lord of the Rings.

[Fingolfin II]

Great advice, Son of Númenor.

Alchisiel, the people who write 'eloquently' with proper grammar and spelling do so to make it easier and more enjoyable for others to read. However, I can understand that the 'deep' discussions of those who have read the books several times can seem a bit daunting and discourage newbies from contributing, especially if they think their comments and opinions don't 'match up' or aren't good enough when compared to the posts of the more experienced BD-ers. That shouldn't be the case though; as Son of Númenor said, it doesn't matter how small or insignificant you think your post will be- just post it, get involved in the discussion and try and learn from other posters.

I'm no expert, but I try my best to add to a discussion and sometimes the points I raise are discussed even though I think that they are not well made. This adds to my confidence so I am able to make better and more worthwhile contributions in the future (better contributions does not necessarily mean longer posts). I think this will also work for you and any other shy Barrow-Downers.

There are quite a lot of you that speak very eloquently and that can be intimidating also. For me personally I have always been intimidated by someone who speaks so eloquently because it makes me feel so common.

Writing eloquently, as I said before, is customary for most on the Barrow-Downs Forum as it is much more pleasant to understand and read. Language like 'r u thinking aragorn iz cool' doesn't seem as nice to read and can be quite hard to understand. By the way, I think you were pretty 'eloquent' yourself in that post .

[Durelin]

It's not intentional of course but I'm very intimidated by most of you because most of you have read the books over and over again while the newbies have read them at least once.

My confession is: I have only read The Lord of the Rings, cover to cover, once! There is not enough time in any life to read all the books that need reading! All those discussing the book in the Chapter-By-Chapter thread will need to read as they discuss. I know that most thoughts come as rather abrupt revelations, not after years of contemplation and study. Though I guess I might be accidently belittling some members of this forum right now...please forgive!

Alchisiel - Look! You've already written a three paragraph post, and on the suggestions thread! I think you'll do fine.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Son of Numenor wrote

This endeavour seems simple to me: read the chapters, share what you think, and discuss your thoughts to gain a better understanding of your personal experience with The Lord of the Rings.

Hear hear! *Fordim claps* Hear hear!

[Child of the 7th Age]

Slightly off topic but pertinent to future discussion.....

Yes, I thought this would be an incentive to read the whole thing methodically which, to tell the truth, I have not done in years and years. RS and the others came out sosme fifteen to seventeen years ago, and that's the only time I sat down to read them through cover-to-cover! I do pick up the volumes quite frequently to look something up, but that is different than a concentrated reading. This seems like a good time to do that.

Mark 12_30 -

As I read the varying drafts of the chapters, I am planning to be on the lookout for certain things. One of these is the question we raised in a much earlier thread: whether the later revisions were the point that Tolkien added the "Christian and Catholic" elements we talk so much about. I'll be looking for hints of providence and the specific references that Tolkien discussed in his letters like lembas, Galadriel's characterization, etc. to see when these first came in. Of course, Tolkien is the one who said in his Letters that the "Christian and Catholic" elements were added in the later revisions. But sometimes what we remember and what we've actually done is different, even for Tolkien who was certainly trying to tell the truth. We shall see...

[mark12_30]

Child and Esty :

Would it be polite to open a thread(s) as needed for the HoLotR discussions? I'm a bit concerned that bringing Marmaduke, Odo and Bingo into the regular discussions could confuse some of the participants or discourage them, and get the discussions off track. That would hardly encourage broad participation in the LotR threads. And I'd like to be free to get as in-depth as we'd like regarding Bingo, Trotter, et al.

Since the participants will be fewer, we can do threads by groups of chapters, or by books, or what not. We could even put them in Books.

What think ye?
--mark12_30

[HerenIstarion]

Bingo is already there, I believe (or, even, I know), for I put him in myself

Well, I suppose it is all right to bring those gentlemen in as long as poster provides satisfactory explanation who they are (and, of course, who they become, if they did, that is)

[mark12_30]

H-I-- I think your brief reference was fine; you were clear on who you were referring to and why, and the quick reference you made was not off-topic to Fordim's original intent in any way.

However, knowing Child (and me) we will be diving deeper than that, and it doesn't seem fair to burden Fordim's discussion with the detail I anticipate. Child has *already* played Trotter, and we are both certified (certifiable?) Frodophiles; Child states she will be looking for Catholic & Christan references; I will also be looking quite hard at Dreams and Visions (especially Frodo's-- er, sorry, Bingo's)... I'm uncertain what level of fanaticism Esty will bring to the mix. But it doesn't seem quite fair to put it on Fordim's thread.

If needed, we can certainly post links back and forth... Perhaps we should agree to, so that any who are interested may pursue. Nevertheless, I think discussing HoLotR won't take NEARLY as many threads as The Big Discussion will.

**second thought**

I suppose, if new threads were frowned upon, we could sort of "cordon off" our HoLotR discussions on the main thread with asterisks or titles or something. "Those not interested in Bingo may skip this section." But then our discussions will be fragmented and harder to follow.

...Child? Esty?

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

For what it's worth I see no problem with bringing in material from HoME here -- that material is all relevant and interesting and illuminating of the text insofar as it is all really just drafts of the final product and not separate works of their own.