The masks of inscrutability, or are you really you?

[HerenIstarion]

Disclaimer: Phone numbers (or any other contact details) of doctors majoring in split personality treatment are highly unwelcome, anyone trying to provide information of the kind indicated is doing it at their own risk.

The question occurred to yours truly whilst posting to Nominations For Best Nicks thread, but I feel it was hovering on the edge of my conscious mind ever before. I will try to make it articulate to the extent I’m able to (being of not great knowledge in the field of psychology, that is)

Allegedly, coming around here we all wear masks – our nicks. Come to think of it, are we really we when posting here? Forced to consider this, I can’t help noticing HerenIstarion does not equal George Lashkhi. Yes, they both sign my posts – one as an author, so he’s name goes above, and another signs it below, as to affirm we both participated, but I can’t help thinking of H-I as of different person. And I have a suspicion he is at once better person than GL finds himself to be, and worse in some other aspects. For one, H-I is more prone to the sin of vanity, but he is smarter, more polite and well-spoken and bolder than GL is.

So, the question comes down to trivial ‘is it just me, or have you noticed something similar?’

PS Concerning disclaimer above: unless the doctors in question are not Tolkienites and the provision of their contact details has an aim of getting good Tolkien discussion around. The statement of purpose to be included

[davem]

Well, David Marley is not exactly davem. davem is way too dogmatic & sure of himself, & a lot of the time I'm slightly embarrassed to be associated with him - I wish he would be more polite & less 'certain', & stop pretending to be some kind of expert on all things Tolkien, because I don't believe he's anything of the kind.

I also wish I understood half of what he wrote, or where it came from - too much of what he posts just comes to him as hes typing, & he has a bad habit of just hitting the submit button before he'e re-read it & thought about it.

[Crystal Heart]

I have to say that I disagree. Crystal Heart and my real personality are the same in every way. I created my screenname to represent me. I have never thought about it before in any different way. We are both the same person. As my signature says: What you see is exactly what you get. Don't say I didn't warn you.

-Crystal Heart-

[mark12_30]

Er...

I think mark12_30 and Helen wish they weren't quite so similar.

And I bet Mithadan won't post on this thread. Nor Mister Underhill either. Talk about sustaining a mystique.

[The Saucepan Man]

If anything, davem, it's the opposite for me. I suspect that the Man behind the Pans is sometimes less thoughtful and reasonable than his Forum counterpart. After all, he does not, in real life, have the luxury of reviewing and moderating everything that he says before he says it.

Edit: I cross-posted with you, H-I, but I would certainly agree with you when you say:

But in virtual friendship, it is easier to hurt. Hence the caution and politeness, which I would not have shown if we were indeed in a mentioned pub.

That's part of what I was trying to get across above. It also explains my excessive use of 'smileys'.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Great thread idea, HI!

The difference between my real life identity (H****) and my online personality is complicated by the fact that Estelyn has two different aspects to her: she is the person who posts and moderates on the forum today, but she is also a character who lives in Fourth Age Middle-earth and takes part in (RPG) adventures there.

Similarities: Both H* and Estelyn are female, both no longer in their youth. (Though the online person is quite reticent about giving her exact age, since numbers can be divisive, and it's nice to cross age boundaries on the internet.) I think that the way Estelyn reacts is fairly similar to H*'s reactions. The moderator Estelyn does weigh her words more carefully than the poster Esty does, though. (Hmmm, even the change in nick, cutting it short to Esty, seems to change things - I don't use the abbreviation in my official function.) Both Estelyn and H* are reticent about showing too much of their private side to others unless they feel safe.

It's easier to define the differences than the similarities, I think. I would agree with Saucepan that the online person has the advantage of proofreading conversations, so that mistakes made by spontaneous utterances are few and far between, hopefully. There's also a major difference in language - Estelyn writes in English, H* speaks German almost all of the time - that certainly influences the choice of words and sentence structure.

Estelyn writes a lot - H* very little. The latter tends to forget to answer e-mails and writes so few letters that she is surprised to find out that the price of postage has changed again. Her journal is written very erratically, and she never writes fiction. Estelyn is involved in RPGs and spends hours crafting posts for her characters; furthermore, she has even begun online journaling, with the result that there are more recent entries there than in her private, hand-written one.

The RPG Estelyn lives a much more adventurous life; though she has her home base in Minas Tirith as the Head Loremistress of the Library there, she travels a lot to gather stories. Actually, now that I think about it, that's a similarity - her real life creator likes to travel to gather impressions and ideas as well!

And then there's the chat Esty - she's a combination of H* and Estelyn - a bit more daring and less inhibited than in real life though, with a tendency to enjoy mild flirtation occasionally...

So, to answer the question HI poses - is Estelyn a mask that H* wears? I would say not - she's just part of a personality that is much more complicated than can be shown online. (The older I get, the less inclined I am to put on a show for the benefit of the public.) But maybe there's a bit of a mask, for who can show a naked face to all of the world?!

[HerenIstarion]

edit: cross posting with Mark here, the reply was mainly to the post prior to hers.

Hey, Helen, no knowing about Mr. U, but about Mith your guess is probably correct . Could we tease him into it? Something like 'bet you a dollar you won't show up in the Masks thread? Wonder if he would fall for dollar, though...

end of edit

*********************

Good for you You won't need the contact details of doctors, even if those are provided

But a bit of clarification: the topic is based mainly on perception of things as yours truly sees them. For me, name defines thing to an extent (even when I do not think it out, on some unconscious level), so different names have to be defining different things. That's why (up to a point) HerenIstarion is not the same as George Lashkhi for me. The innumerable connotations, based, among other things, on visual effect of names being written down, and the sound of them pronounced, do the trick too.

Besides, even when I do not think that either out, I inevitable act differently as reacting to different situations. Hence, as my presence (as presence of other members, of course) is virtual, expressed by what I write, not by how I look or what I sound like, I act differently of what I would do if we all were having rounds of beer in a pub. We all are up to a point incognito. No one can know as a fact, whether I have four huge-n-hairy warts on the tip of my nose or not, so to say, and it makes me free. On the other hand, the opinion of mates here rates higher, for we all feel and are equals, it is what C.S.Lewis called (as a joke) 'mutual admiration society', or friendship. But in virtual friendship, it is easier to hurt. Hence the caution and politeness, which I would not have shown if we were indeed in a mentioned pub.

Hence conclusion - if HerenIstarion acts differently from George Lashkhi, and has his own name, we are separate (even if slightly so) persons, are not we?

It's a bit of a joke too, but as Russians say, there is a bit of a truth to each joke, or, as H-I (but not GL) would put it, there is a bit of a joketo each joke, and the rest is truth

cheers

[mark12_30]

Alas, more than one tale tells that meeting IRL ruined the online friendship. If the relationship is writing-based, then rather than ruin the online writing chemistry, better to maintain the mask.

I do have cherished exceptions! But I think I have companions here that I would rather NOT meet in person, because the possibility of losing the online friendship outweighs the potential gain of a single meeting IRL.

[davem]

Speaking of meeting IRL, is anyone planning on on being at Tolkien 2005 in Birmingham (UK), August 11th-15th next year? Guests to include Verlyn Flieger, Tom Shippey, Brian Sibley, Ted Naismith & (possibly) Alan Lee.

Info at:

http://www.tolkiensociety.org/2005/about.html

Should be amazing, possibly the biggest thing Tolkien-wise for the foreseeable future.

[Nurumaiel]

But I think I have companions here that I would rather NOT meet in person, because the possibility of losing the online friendship outweighs the potential gain of a single meeting IRL.

Me?

But I see how you feel. I would rather meet those people online who I feel aren't wearing a mask, because otherwise I won't feel like it's them and I'll lose them.

As far as I'm able to gather, Nurumaiel is (copying Esty) C****. Both write and love it, both love large families, both are Catholics, both love music (in particular Irish and Scottish ballads), and so on and so forth. There are some differences, though. Let me see if I can name them...

1) Nurumaiel doesn't mind talking with anyone and can talk at great length to people she doesn't even know. She doesn't mind speaking her loveliest thoughts and doesn't feel embarrassed and being rather old-fashioned. C**** can only talk beyond mere courtesy to certain people, that is 'kindred spirits' who won't laugh at her. She's rather shy... well, very shy, except to those 'kindred spirits.' She isn't embarrassed at being old-fashioned but more concious of it.

2) Nurumaiel writes about Middle-Earth and the inhabitants. C**** hardly ever writes about Middle-Earth and stick to completely original works.

3) Nurumaiel is usually rather calm and not too insane. C**** gets hyper often, particulary after drinking anything red-colored or on the return from a baseball game. More than once she has 'gone Frodo' and hopped up on a table to sing a song.

4) Nurumaiel doesn't talk too much about sports (with exceptions... I've discussed baseball with one Downer before). C**** goes to young lads' baseball games, helps the young lads practice, and is an avid Notre Dame Fighting Irish fan.

5) Nurumaiel doesn't talk too much about cooking or gardening. C**** cooks and is rather good at it, unless she's being told so out of courtesy. C**** also gardens and is very successful at it. It's odd, though, how the day after the tomato plant was put in the ground the deer somehow knew it was there and for the first time ever came into our front yard.....

6) Nurumaiel is an Elf; C**** is mainly hobbit and a little Rohirric.

7) Nurumaiel is usually rather meek and willing to take advice, and doesn't mind giving in to what others suggest. C****, alas, is very stubborn and thinks she knows what she's doing all the time. C**** has a hint of pride and doesn't like to lose in an argument to anyone British or anyone who doesn't come from the Highlands. She may like them, she may love them, but she does not want to have them win over her own Irish ancestry and her Highland blood. Actually, she usually doesn't care that much and she's joking when she says that now.

8) This is the biggest difference of all, I fancy. Nurumaiel is dead, very dead. Nurumaiel has been rotting for over a year. C**** is very, very much alive.

The differences are few, but there are some things I'd like to dispose of in C**** (the stubborness, for example) and imitate Nurumaiel instead.

[Maeggaladiel]

Today on "Behind the Mask," we examine a peculiar specimen of Wight known among the Barrow Downs as Maeggaladiel of the Four Eyes.

Althought the so-called "President" of the questionable Society of Nearsighted Elves, careful research has proven that the creature who claims to be Maeggaladiel is actually human.

Where "Maeg" is talkative and spontaneous, her offline counterpart is quiet and tranquil. The OTHER Maeg spends her time drawing and writing, whereas BD Maeg spends it staring at pictures and making up captions for them, or claiming that she is dead.

Although Maeggaladiel claims to be a fan of Figwit, her alter-ego drools over Orlando, Johnny Depp, Hugh Jackman, Antonio Banderas, Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Harrisson Ford (when he was younger), Cary Ewles (in Princess Bride), Matthew Modine (See "Cuthroat Island" for details) and a variety of other actors who make up what is known in her household as "THE LIST." You should all be glad that she refrains from speaking of THE LIST while on the Downs.

Offline Maeg likes a variety of films that she does not discuss on the Downs, from VanHelsing to Pirates of the Carribbean to French Kiss to Ten Things I Hate About You. (She just remembered that Heath Ledger is also on THE LIST.)

She is indeed nearsighted, and has astigmatism in her right eye.

NEXT TIME ON "UNMASKED": MODERATORS: DEMONIC UNDEAD OBSERVERS OR NORMAL GUYS WITH TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS?

Heh heh!!! (Dodges as Pio, the BW, and Bethberry throw things at Maeg)

[Saraphim]

No, Diamond. I'm not nearly that clever.


Anyway, I have recently asked my friend to look at a thread I participated in on the Downs and pick which poster I was. He couldn't. Therefore, it is only plausable to assume that Saraphim is a different person than Kira.

Or maybe, my insomniacal friend was too tired to tell the difference.

At any rate, props to Maeg for a super-funny post!

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

Hmm...

Aylwen is a thirty-something innkeeper. Aylwen's offline counterpart is just turning fifteen this Saturday and works as a student. I feel like I'm more...stubborn and assertive in real life. Offline I feel more like a leader in that I always make sure everyone is on task and that everyone (including myself!) is doing their work to bring a project together. Aylwen sometimes needs a little nudging, and is affected by a more outgoing RL persona. Mallory likes to run (as a sport) in her free time...Aylwen just stands behind a bar and yells at people. Aylwen tends to follow the rules of the place she roams about (the Barrow-Downs) while Mallory tends to be a bit more...crazy and spontaneous, I'm told.

However, both Mallory and Aylwen like music. Neither of them have died yet (Aman!), so they are similar in that respect as well.

-Innkeeper/Student

[Lhunardawen]

Now I am rather confused myself as to who is really sitting in front of the computer right now.

*takes a deep breath*

Lhunardawen is a myopic Halfelven queen who likes to think she is quite as mature as she wants to be. But behind the royal spectacles, Abby (who is bespectacled herself) is merely a 15-year-old Tolkien fan who desires to discuss Middle Earth with others who share her interest, finding none as intensely addicted as her (except for her brother, Nilpaurion Felagund). The Barrow-Downs, for this reason, feels like home to her. As Abby can be very trusting and easily opens up to others, Lhunardawen cannot be so because of obvious reasons. But all the same, both of them can be very crazy one minute and serious the next.

And Abby can be very insane, doing something as silly as talking to her stuffed seal (as she is doing right now).

[Eowyn Skywalker]

...Hmmm... am I really me? You'll never know... maybe I am really Eowyn Skywalker, and I really do have Luke Skywalker's lightsaber, and... well, my title is a paragraph long... and I can't remember it all. But then, maybe I'm NOT. Hm... who'd ever know? Maybe I'm actually a computer here, trying to discover the secrets of the hidden pathes of the Barrow-downs... maybe I'm a Jedi, who somehow made it to Earth. Maybe I'm an Elf, though I'd be more inclinded to say Hobbit here.

No, Eowyn Skywalker is very much like me... though she's a bit... stranger. Yeah... well... actually... I can be as odd as her... plus. Snrk.

I would say, indeed, that I am Eowyn Skywalker, and she is me. But you'll never know that... *laughs evilly*

Well, of course we do have many things in common, as both Eowyn Skywalker and I write, love Anakin... yeah, we must be pretty simular... I would say that I am Eowyn Skywalker, and, if I wanted to, could get away as her in real life... I even have the right costumes... and a lightsaber. I think I am me... hmmm... but what else would I be?

-Eowyn Skywalker

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

A series of thoughts that I will try to articulate before they disappear on me:

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

Allegedly, coming around here we all wear masks – our nicks. Come to think of it, are we really we when posting here?

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredil

I suppose my point, although slow-coming, is that we are not the only ones who apply masks to ourselves. Other people, for whatever reasons, see us how they want to. Its as if they past a mask of their own creation over our faces, and forget that there is more behind it.

I was just reading through one of my favorite threads, How Do You Imagine Other BDers, and a thought struck.

Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle

I'm always trying to form mental images of other BDers.

Is our allowance of others to picture us how they will another way of masking ourselves? I believe it is. But more applicable to my last thought on this thread, are we encouraging others to mask each other? By allowing, even encouraging, fellow members to come up with amazingly inaccurate images of us, are we subconsciously letting them make masks for us? Rather than letting the true 'you' show through (forgive the rhyme), we are letting people create labels for us.

According to others who will like as not never meet me, I am currently a rather tall girl, a rather short girl, a boy (!), a blonde, a brunette, short hair, long hair, long fingers, artsy style, sneaker wearing, etcetera. Is this a good thing? Speaking sensibly, yes. We are online, and it is never a good idea to tell all to people you don't know. In my opinion, it is never a good idea to tell all to people you DO know. But speaking in a more... I don't know... say... psychological/moral sort of way, is it a good thing to allow others, or even ourselves, to mask us? By doing so, do we deny who we are, or do we allow for sheer creativity on the part of others?

Fea

[the phantom]

But more applicable to my last thought on this thread, are we encouraging others to mask each other?

Maybe some people are, but on that thread you mentioned I usually tell people if they are right or wrong. I don't tell them they can't picture me the way they want but I also tell them the way I truly am in case they want to be closer to reality.

I don't think I care either way. If you want I suppose you could picture me as a glowing, man-eating squash from Neptune or you could just go to Alka's picture page and get an idea of what I really look like and picture me that way.

If the phantom is wearing a mask, it is because you put it on him.

(kind of ironic that "the phantom" of all people doesn't bother to wear a mask)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

If you want I suppose you could picture me as a glowing, man-eating squash from Neptune

Radioactive alien produce it is.

I've not yet come to a conclusion as to what my thoughts are in regard to other people's potential imaginings of me. I suppose that I like to allow a little bit of artistic license on their part and a little bit of mystery on my own part.

Is this creating another mask (or series of masks) however? Just as Feanor of the Peredhil is one of L*'s masks, so, apparently, are the images other people project of Fea. L* has her masks (or my masks, to be grammatically correct), which each, in turn, have their own. But do masks that other people give you count as masks you give yourself, simply because you allow them to exist?

Fea

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

By allowing, even encouraging, fellow members to come up with amazingly inaccurate images of us, are we subconsciously letting them make masks for us? Rather than letting the true 'you' show through (forgive the rhyme), we are letting people create labels for us.

It's always interesting (and funny at times) to know how other Downers see you, but we always have the choice whether we shall tell them who we really are or not. As the phantom said:

Maybe some people are, but on that thread you mentioned I usually tell people if they are right or wrong. I don't tell them they can't picture me the way they want but I also tell them the way I truly am in case they want to be closer to reality.

In my case, my avatar misleads some people into thinking that I look like Eowyn, but I tell them that I don't. We just happened to have quite similar stories, but I was not lucky enough to be as beautiful as her.

But just because others see me in the way they do, it does not necessarily mean that I should create a mask out of it. If people perceive me as a certain person, then that's their personal opinion. I don't think I would call it a mask if what they see is how I really am (or at least the mask I wear ) . But if I know that is not the real me (or the mask), yet that is how they see me, then I have just let them create a mask for me, which I accept unless I tell them they are wrong. In the end, all that matters is that we know if what we're showing people is who we really are, or at least the mask we want them to see.

That is quite confusing. I don't think it made sense.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

That is quite confusing. I don't think it made sense.

It did, no worries.

I was not lucky enough to be as beautiful as her.

Or more likely you are just as beautiful, and just don't think you are. That's usually how it goes.

So the feeling that I am getting is along the lines that the images other people give us are only masks if we accept them as such? The second we deny it, we wear the mask no longer. I think...

Fea