Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
05-17-2004, 09:24 AM | #1 |
Gibbering Gibbet
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Beyond cloud nine
Posts: 1,844
|
The Road and The Ring
I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the ‘meaning’ of The Lord of the Rings…and finding the task to be more than a little overwhelming! The only way I’ve been able to address this weighty topic in a more manageable way is to sidestep the relatively subjective issue of “what does it all mean?” with “what is it all about?” – and not even in the sense of thematic concerns (it’s about war, love, honour, friendship, humility, etc etc etc), but far more simply what sorts of things is the story about? The answer I’ve come up with is that The Lord of the Rings is about the relationship between the images of Road and Ring (or lines and circles).
The whole narrative structure is built around these images. There’s the linear journey along the Road from Bag End to Mount Doom, but then that journey becomes a completed circle with the return to the Shire and its scouring. Even during this journey there is a cyclical movement of departure, danger and refuge as the company, then the Fellowship, and then the separate parties move through each stage of their journey. Frodo’s journey throughout the story demonstrates what I’m talking about: Depart Bag End Chased by Nazgűl Gildor Depart Gildor Chased by Nazgűl Farmer Maggot’s Farm Depart Farmer Maggot’s Farm Old Forest Tom Bombadil Depart Tom Bombadil Barrow Downs (very scary place) Bree/Strider Depart Bree Weathertop Rivendell Depart Rivendell Moria Lothlorien Depart Lothlorien Mordor Minas Tirith Depart Minas Tirith The Scouring, and the years of suffering and disillusionment The Undying Lands I think this list shows pretty well what I’m talking about – there’s a pretty straight-forward movement from beginning to end (along a linear Road) but at the same time there is the constant cycle of departure, danger and refuge. What’s more, the whole journey is itself a circular journey with Frodo going “there and back again” and then at the very end going to the first and primordial Home. But this is where things get really tricky. How are we to understand this relation of line and circle, or Road and Ring? The temptation would be to see them as either opposed to one another (Frodo has to travel the Road in order to destroy the Ring) or as happily co-operative (the straight Road, when followed well, becomes a Ring), but there are all kinds of very complicated connections between Roads and Rings that makes untangling this relation fascinatingly tough. Some examples of combinations that I find intriguing: Bag End is both linear and circular: a round tunnel that runs straight back into a hill; Isengard is both linear and circular: a straight tower that rises into the air and is surrounded by the “ring of Isengard”. Does this mean that Bag End and Isengard are somehow connected to one another? ooooo – Saruman does take over each and make each a seat of his power… The One Ring of Sauron is circular; Narsil (the sword that cut the Ring from Sauron’s finger) is straight. Are circles associated with “evil” and lines with the “good”? This would seem to work with the next ‘pairing’ of Roads and Rings… The “straight road” leads to the West and the Undying Lands; The “fallen” shape of Middle-Earth is a circle. But, is it possible to work with a “good/evil” version of the Ring/Road relation given the first example of Bag End/Isengard above? Or, even more disturbing to this notion… Minas Tirith is built in the form of a circle (it also has a round tower). In Lothlorien, the forward, linear progression of time (change) is halted and replaced with an eternal circle/cycle in which seasons come and go but time does not. The only way for the evil Ring to be destroyed is for Frodo to resist the temptation to give way to the eternal cycle of rest and ease at Lorien and continue on his straight Road toward Mount Doom. But these are perhaps relatively simple instances of what I’m working through. More compelling is the very nature of the narrative: is it a linear story that moves from beginning, through the middle, and toward the end? If this is so, then presumably we are working toward some kind of resolution and conclusion. But then, if this is the case, then is it not at the very least ironic that this “straight road” leads back to the very place where it began? Or is the story circular? But if this is so, then is it in some manner like the Ring in that it closes in on itself and “goes nowhere”? Help! |
05-17-2004, 09:50 AM | #2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
|
What is straight? If you walk in a straight line on this planet or on Arda (post 'bending') you will evntually come back to the same point, and thus have walked on a circular path.
I do not see cirlces as 'evil'. A round (3 dimensional circle) shape is a 'perfect' shape that things form into. Whether we talk of a star, or a planet, or a bubble, these are perfect shapes. The universe itself maybe contained in on itself and therefore circular. The journeys we see in the book are to me not whether it is a linear or circular story, but that is 'multi dimensional'. ie we have characters and events going off at tangents throughout the book. I love the way when reading LOTR you can see Tolkien's plot from different viewpoints. This is what helps makes Tolkien's story great. I remember a discussion thread on another site a year or so ago where the question was - Would it have been better if Glorfindel went with the fellowship instead of Pippin. I was chosen to bat for the 'Glorfindel' side, and as valiant as I tried, in the end I was 'defeated' and realised you could not BETTER Tolkien's plot. But it goes beyond LOTR itself. Without mentioning the whole raft of history befre the third age, just taking into account small parts of the story one picks up from Unfinished Tales, etc, and you can see an even MORE interwoven plot, (for example the viewpoint of Rohan and the battle of the Fords of Isen). So to me I think it is too simple to call the story 'linear' or 'circular'. It is mult-dimensional. |
05-17-2004, 01:55 PM | #3 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,997
|
Fordim,
I appears to be my fate that I post a quick, incomplete response at the start of your threads! One of the traditional claims about the structure of LOTR has always been that it is ... unstructured, the typical picaresque where the heroes just march off to various adventures, without a strongly plotted or planned sense of 'rising' action (the various scenes possibly being interchangeable to some degree), other than the ultimate battle, of course, even as there were several different strands of adventures. What I like is how you point out that there is a repeated pattern of departure/action/respite. I had seen the three 'major' retreats of Bombadill, Rivendell and Lorien because they are highlighted thematically but not the other examples of resite in Gildor/Farmer Maggot/Bree etc. Completely irrelevantly, this reminds me of the short action sequences in Star Wars, where Lucas limits each scene to approximately 20 minutes, something akin to the time in American TV shows between commercials. What this has to do with your Ring and Road thesis I'm not sure. Just jumping through some hoops at the moment! Essex, Quote:
Anyhow, as I said, I must dash... Bethberry
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bęthberry; 05-17-2004 at 07:25 PM. |
|
05-17-2004, 04:21 PM | #4 |
Laconic Loreman
|
Essex
You bring up two valid points. With the whole "circle" idea as not really being evil. The characters you see (especially the hobbits and Aragorn) go through "circular" patterns to become the people they are today.
For example you have Aragorn who wanted to be king from the very beginning of the journey, but the Aragorn at the beginning is much diferent from the Aragorn at the end. If you look at LOTR, after losing Gandalf, Aragorn was questioning what he had done. He was watching the fellowhips fall apart before his eyes, Boromir had died, Merry and Pip were captured and Frodo was off to Mordor with out telling anyone. Aragorn took the role as the leader after Gandalf died and he questioned himself and saw himself as a failure at the end of FOTR. But his determination and love for Merry and Pip led him on. At the end of the book Aragorn is a confident, loving, and turns out to be a great king, great leader. The hobbits all went through changes and you see that in the scouring of the shire. Merry and Sam in particular stepped up and became leaders to drive out Saruman. All the fellowship characters had went through a transformation (which you can think of as a circular path, since you need to go off the straight road to go through a transformation) and you see that by the end of the book. Your other valid point was the way Tolkien wrote it was probably the best way of doing it. You mention Glorfindel replacing Pippin. If pippin wasn't in the fellowship Faramir would of died, end of story. Faramir did a lot of things behind the scenes in LOTR, he was an adored captain of Gondor and his death would of been tragic. Glorfindel is no doubt a better fighter to Pippin, but come on Denethor wouldn't of let Glorfindel stay and keep him company. It had to of been someone like Pippin to tell Denethor about the journey and to warm his heart, for it was written that Pippin brought a slight warm of Denethor's heart. Pippin eased Boromir's death. Glorfindel probably wouldn't of cared about Faramir, no Pippin means Beregond is not warned and means Faramir is dead. Also, Gandalf used Pippin to keep an eye on Denethor. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if Boromir hadn't of died. Well if Boromir hadn't of died, probably means the hobbits wouldn't of been captured, which means most likely the company would of gone to Minas Tirith. There would of been no need to go to Rohan, Legolas and Gimli clearly said they would go to Minas Tirith, we know after was Boromir did Merry and Pip would of gone too, of course Boromir, and Aragorn wanted to go with Boromir from the beginning. If they hadn't of travelled to Rohan, Theoden wouldn't of been free and Rohan would be in control of Saruman. You had Gandalf during Amon Hen I believe he was still in Lothlorien, there he fought wtih the dark lord when Frodo put on the ring. Gandalf knew Rohan needed aid and probably would of tracked down the company and told them they needed to go to Rohan, but by then it might of been to late. Who knows this is only speculation. The way Tolkien wrote it, there probably could of been no other way but it is always fun to ponder. Last edited by Boromir88; 05-17-2004 at 04:25 PM. |
05-18-2004, 02:50 AM | #5 | ||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
|
OK, Bethberry, re your reply regarding my post on of the plot seen from different viewpoints.
Quote:
1/ Witch King's death as discussed by the orcs on the Orc Path. Quote:
2/ Another, indirect, but beautifully constructed passage finds us at the Cross-roads: Quote:
3/ Finally, a direct comparison. Quote:
Sorry, I seem to have led this topic off at a tangent. We should get back to Fordim’s points on whether this is a linear or circular composition. But I think my points above, though off topic, go to show that (I think) it is too simple to show this story as linear or circular. Actually, what I wrote above has just come to mind. This book, in its multiple layers, is really abot Cause and Effect. ie how different strands of a tale are totally interwoven. Take one piece out of the equation and all fall, like a line of dominoes. My example of the defeat of the Witch King is a major one. But, for example, what if Sam's dad hadn't told the Black Rider that the hobbit's had already left? They probably would have been captured in Hobbiton before they had travelled a step! Without Mr Gamgee's (unwitting) assistance, all would have been lost....... |
||||
05-18-2004, 05:30 AM | #6 | ||
Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,547
|
Fordim, another great thread topic!
I agree with Essex that the story is too complex to call just 'linear' or just 'circular'. I suppose that depending on your perspective it could be either or. But the way I see it is that it is both. It is linear in the fact that the characters go from point A to point B and they take these steps to get there and they change in these ways. However, it is also circular in that points A and B are the same point, for the Hobbits anyway: the Shire (though I suppose for Frodo it is more like a lasso: the Shire.... the Shire, and then the Undying Lands). Quote:
Quote:
So in conclusion, I will say that it is impossible to fully describe a complex, 3-dimensional story like LotR with flat figures like circles and lines. There is too much going on, too many characters and events, or "rings and roads" as you so well put it. |
||
|
|