Arwen's Grave Choice

[mark12_30]

In the thread Awesome Deaths Bethberry and Lush have poignantly recalled that Arwen's grave is lonely and unsung, and will eventually be forgotten. Bethberry provided this quote (many thanks Bethberry) :

But Arwen went forth from the House, and the light of her eyes was quenched, and it seemed to her people that she had become cold and grey as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Then she said fairwell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lórien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came. Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone, and the land was silent.

'There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring was not yet come, she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.

Arwen's death (and choice of gravesite) resonates with me too, but I think for different reasons.

Had she remained in Gondor, she would have been honored and revered. Imagine having Arwen for a "Queen Mother"! Certainly her wisdom would not have gone to waste. She would have been consulted often and certainly would have been well-loved and in-demand. She would not have been lonely.

Yet she turned her back on that-- *and* she turned her back on the company of her own flesh and blood. Her children were not taken from her. They were alive and well. They could have been a great comfort to her. Why did she leave the remainder of her family?

Why instead did she go back to "the heart of elvendom on earth"?

[Son of Númenor]

Great thread idea!

I think your last question - 'Why instead did she go back to "the heart of elvendom on earth"?' - speaks for itself. Arwen, it seems, longed for her people, & on some level surely she regretted the fact that she would not be reuinted with them, being sundered from the Rings of the World until the End. After all, she had been alive for thousands of years before meeting Aragorn, & though their love was undoubtedly strong, they were only married for 120 years, & 'together' only a little longer - a proverbial blink of the eye for one of the Firstborn.

After having lived for many hundreds of years under the assumption that she would spend countless more with her father & her people, it seems that Arwen's last days in Middle-earth, facing the finality of her decision, were tinged with doubt, grief, regret & longing.

[NightKnight]

And what happened to her body when she had died? Did it just lie there, open for birds and beasts to eat, or was she buried somewhere? And in that case, by who? If she was actually buried, it is possible that Eldarion or his sisters or their descendants could have gone there to mourn. I don't think that her grave and life were forgotten, at least not as long as Gondor still stood.

[Imladris]

Another reason, despite the fact that it was elvendom on earth and that she missed her people, would be the fact that her grandmother (?) Galadriel had dwelt there. I got the vague impression that Arwen spent a lot of time in Lothlorien before she married Aragorn and maybe she just wanted to die at home. Maybe when Aragorn was alive, Gondor was her home because the love of her life dwelt there, but since he had died Gondor could no longer be her home. So she went to Lothlorien.

[mark12_30]

Well, I chose the wrong search string, but Saucie led me to the old thread (I love Who's Online!),.

Go here"Why Did Arwen Do That?" for an established and erudite treatment of this issue (Sqatter starts at post #5.)

Esty will probably close this one.

[The Saucepan Man]

There are some interesting thoughts on the issues raised above in these threads:

Why did Arwen do that?

and

Who buries Arwen?

That is not to say, of course, that the discussion should not continue here. I just thought that it might be helpful to link to some previous threads that have touched on these issue.

In the first thread linked to, there is a fascinating exploration of why Arwen would wish to leave her family to die alone in a fading forest. I, for one, found it quite difficult to understand why whatever it was that led her there should be stronger than her maternal bond with her children. On this issue, I would recommend Mr Underhill's excellent analysis at post #35.

Edit: Helen, you beat me to it while I was reviewing some of the wonderful posts on that thread!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Moderator's note: Though it is a good idea to read those past threads to see what was discussed, this one can continue. There may be new aspects and the discussion may take a different direction, so carry on!

[Bêthberry]

That old thread is a wonderful thing to behold! I remember it fondly, as the elves remember their past days. Truth be told, I also remember wondering with some degree of amusement how long Saucepan had been a father; I knew that Squatter was not; I can say this now: I know Sauce better!

Yet, thoughts and life goes on and so I would like to add something here that I did not to that discussion: proof that Estelyn need not close this thread just yet.

Tolkien's passage reverberates for me with something akin to musical harmony. There is an allusion which made me favour Rimbaud's idea that Arwen's passing belongs to the expression of theme and literary type rather than to psychological reality. It is the similarity between Tolkien's description of Arwen's passing and Psalm 103, verses 15 and 16. Helen has copied Tolkien's description from the Appendix into the first post here. Compare that with the King James' Bible:

As for man, his days are as grass; as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.

For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.

I see this as suggesting that Arwen's role in Lord of the Rings is to bridge that very difference beteen the elves and the doom of men. It is, for me, a poignant symbolic role.