Which Elf had it hardest? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Fingolfin II · 05-06-2004, 01:35 AM

Which of the Elves do you think suffered the most, or the most tragic things happened to them?

I'd say Elrond, because he never really knew his father, his foster-father was guilty of murdering his people and never came back, as well as his daughter Arwen dying, his brother choosing mortality, the decline of his brother's kin (the downfall of Numenor) and his wife getting sick and leaving him (for a long time).

What do you guys think?

Olorin_TLA · 05-06-2004, 06:32 AM

Maedhros maybe...he tried so hard to be good, but his sense of duty to the Oath was too much in the end. Of all the Sons of Feanor, he was my favourite, and it was a real blow to see him end like that.

Actually, the same could be said for Thingol. He starts out so nice, turns into a nasty $%)*£, Beren recovers his prize and Thranduil softens up once more, and then finally his pride leads to the eradication of him and his realm.

Elianna · 05-06-2004, 06:36 PM

I'm with Fingolfin II. (I haven't read Sil, so maybe my vote doesn't count.)

I say Elrond because of all the things FingolfinII said and these: You know he's got to be torn up because he's supposed to be the healer. But the Ring-bearer, savior of M-E, couldn't stay to enjoy the Shire (mostly) because his wounds were never healed. And Celebrían, his wife, was never fully healed either, yes, healed physically (which is all Elrond can do probably), but you know he's got to beat himself up about it. At least they'll see each other again.

Also he was Gil-galad's herald, a more important position than would be thought if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure they were close, so Elrond, along with all this other stuff, had to bear his king's death in the Last Alliance.

Son of Númenor · 05-06-2004, 07:04 PM

Lúthien springs to my mind when I hear discussion of which of the Eldar 'had it hardest'. She was imprisoned by a few of the Sons of Feanor (a scary prospect for anyone), & even placed in solitary confinement by her own dear pop. She had to duel in some form or another with Sauron, Carcharoth & Morgoth, & managed to get out of each encounter alive. She married a Man & was tragically separated from her family & her people beyond the confines of the world. Although, granted, she did find truly love, unlike many of the prominent Elves of the First Age, the hardships she endured in the name of that love were among the greatest of any being of Middle-earth.

Knight of Gondor · 05-07-2004, 09:56 PM

I didn't think too much about Elrond, but when you put it that way, I suppose he would be an excellent candidate for "worst life". Then again, I forget whether or not the book backs up Cate Blanchett's quote in the movie: "To be a Ringbearer is to be alone". It makes sense, though, for Elrond.

The Elf that came to my mind was...and help me if I'm getting his name mixed up with someone else's...Beleg? The friend of Turin Turumbar, who Turin slew by accident, taking him for a foe in the dark light. Of course, Turin would be the most suffered man to mention...

Gorwingel · 05-08-2004, 12:34 AM

I have never thought of Elrond having such a terrible life. But, yes, that is all quite true. By the end he was basically alone, except for (I would think) the sons. But were always off in Middle-earth traveling around assisting with the conflicts surrounding the Ring. So he must have not seen them that much.

Turin though, he did not have it good. It was nice that he slayed the dragon, but having the Curse of Morgoth on him (and what happened to him after) would never have been a good thing.

But then I also think that Galadriel had quite a hard time just because of everything she had seen and been through during her very, very, very long life. Basically for her everything had gone downhill from the first time she awoke, and then of course she also shared the sorrow of being a ringbearer. And all of that can never be good.

I don't think though that Luthien exactly had the most sorrowfilled life. She got what she wanted, and had the most joyful of joys because of it. Though she did have to go through a lot to get there, and of course lose her immortality because of it.

I guess we can assume from all of this that it was pretty hard being an elf in Middle-earth

yavanna II · 07-14-2004, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin II

Which of the Elves do you think suffered the most, or the most tragic things happened to them?

I'd say Elrond, because he never really knew his father, his foster-father was guilty of murdering his people and never came back, as well as his daughter Arwen dying, his brother choosing mortality, the decline of his brother's kin (the downfall of Numenor) and his wife getting sick and leaving him (for a long time).

What do you guys think?

who the hell is Elrond's foster-daddy?

and ELROND WAS A HALF-ELF, so it would be nicer if we exclude Elrond.

This is just one girl's opinion.

yavanna II · 07-14-2004, 06:34 AM

hEY, look, Feanor suffered a lot. His daddy died, the Valar who didn't understand what the Sils were to him, Morgy stole his sils, the Light dies, and everything. The oath that he swore was just a natural instinct for someone who has had that. If it was me..... I WOULD HAVE GONE ALONE TO KICK MORGY ON THE ***.

I'm serious. Why did nobody think of Feanor?????!!!!

ohtatyaro · 07-23-2004, 04:12 AM

Maedhros, sure

(I won't list reasons as they are already mentioned )

Elianna · 07-23-2004, 08:31 AM

yavanna II: Elrond's foster-father was Maglor, Fëanor's 2nd son, one of the one's who just tried to kill Elrond's parents and kidnapped him and Elros. Technically, Elrond was 9/16ths elven, not just half

. And he chose to be counted among the Elves at the end of the 1st Age. He does count in this poll.

And just generally, you might want to try calming down just a tad.

Encaitare · 07-26-2004, 11:27 AM

I was actually just thinking about how much it sucks to be Elrond. He's awesome and all, a lore-master and a generally cool guy, but he did lose his whole family. Celebrian, Arwen, his parents... does anyone know what happened to Elladan and Elrohir? Did they stay in Middle-earth or eventually go across the Sea? I looked them up on the Encyclopedia of Arda (glyphweb.com/arda), and it said they stayed in Rivendell after Elrond sailed, but it's unknown what they did afterwards. Does anyone know if maybe Tolkien stated anything about this, maybe in one of his letters?

Also, Maedhros had a hard time of it, between being chained to a wall, having his hand hacked off, and then having to worry about his father's Oath.

ninlaith · 07-26-2004, 06:05 PM

I think it would be awful to be Celebor, if you're a man it would be awful anyway. Not ruling a kingdom, having to be one step behind a woman who has more power than you, not doing anything fun like showing people their possible destiny, and just constantly in the backround. He seemed to be coping with it though. Just happy to be there I guess.

Encaitare · 07-29-2004, 02:37 PM

Yeah, movie-Celeborn just kinda stands there, although he has a few more lines in the Extended Edition. Book-Celeborn is better, though; at least he plays a more active role in the story instead of just being second to Galadriel.

05-06-2004, 01:35 AM	#1
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	Which Elf had it hardest? Which of the Elves do you think suffered the most, or the most tragic things happened to them? I'd say Elrond, because he never really knew his father, his foster-father was guilty of murdering his people and never came back, as well as his daughter Arwen dying, his brother choosing mortality, the decline of his brother's kin (the downfall of Numenor) and his wife getting sick and leaving him (for a long time). What do you guys think? __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

05-06-2004, 06:32 AM	#2
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Maedhros maybe...he tried so hard to be good, but his sense of duty to the Oath was too much in the end. Of all the Sons of Feanor, he was my favourite, and it was a real blow to see him end like that. Actually, the same could be said for Thingol. He starts out so nice, turns into a nasty $%)£, Beren recovers his prize and Thranduil softens up once more, and then finally his pride leads to the eradication of him and his realm. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!" Last edited by Olorin_TLA; 05-06-2004 at 06:37 AM.*

05-06-2004, 06:36 PM	#3
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	I'm with Fingolfin II. (I haven't read Sil, so maybe my vote doesn't count.) I say Elrond because of all the things FingolfinII said and these: You know he's got to be torn up because he's supposed to be the healer. But the Ring-bearer, savior of M-E, couldn't stay to enjoy the Shire (mostly) because his wounds were never healed. And Celebrían, his wife, was never fully healed either, yes, healed physically (which is all Elrond can do probably), but you know he's got to beat himself up about it. At least they'll see each other again. Also he was Gil-galad's herald, a more important position than would be thought if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure they were close, so Elrond, along with all this other stuff, had to bear his king's death in the Last Alliance. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

05-06-2004, 07:04 PM	#4
Son of Númenor A Shade of Westernesse Join Date: May 2004 Location: The last wave over Atalantë Posts: 515	Lúthien springs to my mind when I hear discussion of which of the Eldar 'had it hardest'. She was imprisoned by a few of the Sons of Feanor (a scary prospect for anyone), & even placed in solitary confinement by her own dear pop. She had to duel in some form or another with Sauron, Carcharoth & Morgoth, & managed to get out of each encounter alive. She married a Man & was tragically separated from her family & her people beyond the confines of the world. Although, granted, she did find truly love, unlike many of the prominent Elves of the First Age, the hardships she endured in the name of that love were among the greatest of any being of Middle-earth. __________________ "This miserable drizzling afternoon I have been reading up old military lecture-notes again:- and getting bored with them after an hour and a half. I have done some touches to my nonsense fairy language - to its improvement."

05-07-2004, 09:56 PM	#5
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	I didn't think too much about Elrond, but when you put it that way, I suppose he would be an excellent candidate for "worst life". Then again, I forget whether or not the book backs up Cate Blanchett's quote in the movie: "To be a Ringbearer is to be alone". It makes sense, though, for Elrond. The Elf that came to my mind was...and help me if I'm getting his name mixed up with someone else's...Beleg? The friend of Turin Turumbar, who Turin slew by accident, taking him for a foe in the dark light. Of course, Turin would be the most suffered man to mention... __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

05-08-2004, 12:34 AM	#6
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	I have never thought of Elrond having such a terrible life. But, yes, that is all quite true. By the end he was basically alone, except for (I would think) the sons. But were always off in Middle-earth traveling around assisting with the conflicts surrounding the Ring. So he must have not seen them that much. Turin though, he did not have it good. It was nice that he slayed the dragon, but having the Curse of Morgoth on him (and what happened to him after) would never have been a good thing. But then I also think that Galadriel had quite a hard time just because of everything she had seen and been through during her very, very, very long life. Basically for her everything had gone downhill from the first time she awoke, and then of course she also shared the sorrow of being a ringbearer. And all of that can never be good. I don't think though that Luthien exactly had the most sorrowfilled life. She got what she wanted, and had the most joyful of joys because of it. Though she did have to go through a lot to get there, and of course lose her immortality because of it. I guess we can assume from all of this that it was pretty hard being an elf in Middle-earth __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

07-14-2004, 06:34 AM	#8
yavanna II Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in my own little world Posts: 142	why is there no FEANOR????!!!!!! hEY, look, Feanor suffered a lot. His daddy died, the Valar who didn't understand what the Sils were to him, Morgy stole his sils, the Light dies, and everything. The oath that he swore was just a natural instinct for someone who has had that. If it was me..... I WOULD HAVE GONE ALONE TO KICK MORGY ON THE ***. I'm serious. Why did nobody think of Feanor?????!!!!

07-23-2004, 04:12 AM	#9
ohtatyaro Wight Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: here, there, everywhere... Posts: 121	Maedhros, sure (I won't list reasons as they are already mentioned ) __________________ Reading this sig costs three Galleons, nine Sickles, and a Knut. Pay up!

07-23-2004, 08:31 AM	#10
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	yavanna II: Elrond's foster-father was Maglor, Fëanor's 2nd son, one of the one's who just tried to kill Elrond's parents and kidnapped him and Elros. Technically, Elrond was 9/16ths elven, not just half . And he chose to be counted among the Elves at the end of the 1st Age. He does count in this poll. And just generally, you might want to try calming down just a tad. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

07-26-2004, 11:27 AM	#11
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	I was actually just thinking about how much it sucks to be Elrond. He's awesome and all, a lore-master and a generally cool guy, but he did lose his whole family. Celebrian, Arwen, his parents... does anyone know what happened to Elladan and Elrohir? Did they stay in Middle-earth or eventually go across the Sea? I looked them up on the Encyclopedia of Arda (glyphweb.com/arda), and it said they stayed in Rivendell after Elrond sailed, but it's unknown what they did afterwards. Does anyone know if maybe Tolkien stated anything about this, maybe in one of his letters? Also, Maedhros had a hard time of it, between being chained to a wall, having his hand hacked off, and then having to worry about his father's Oath.

07-26-2004, 06:05 PM	#12
ninlaith Wight Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: in my hobbit hole Posts: 204	I think it would be awful to be Celebor, if you're a man it would be awful anyway. Not ruling a kingdom, having to be one step behind a woman who has more power than you, not doing anything fun like showing people their possible destiny, and just constantly in the backround. He seemed to be coping with it though. Just happy to be there I guess. __________________ "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!"-Bilbo Baggins

07-29-2004, 02:37 PM	#13
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Yeah, movie-Celeborn just kinda stands there, although he has a few more lines in the Extended Edition. Book-Celeborn is better, though; at least he plays a more active role in the story instead of just being second to Galadriel.