Helms Deep - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Phervasaion · 04-29-2004, 02:23 PM

I was just wondering. At the battle of helms deep, do you think that the Rohirrim still could have won even if Gandalf and Erkenbrand had not turned up in the last minute. I thought the orcs and wild men were fleeing at the sight of the forest and King Theoden before Gandalf showed up at the battle.

Olorin_TLA · 04-29-2004, 03:40 PM

I think without the reinforcement's psychological effect the enemiwes would have escaped the route Gandalf appeared, if they would have run at all.

Knight of Gondor · 04-29-2004, 07:58 PM

I suppose if the trees remained as a part of the fighting force, the Uruk-hai wouldn't have stood a very good chance. It's so hard to kill an Ent, so that even the fighting force of Saruman could scarce make much of a mark against their anger. Most of their torches (fire would probably be the best [in this case, worst] weapon to use on an ent) would have been dropeed, because it made the Uruks easy targets for archers.

rutslegolas · 05-04-2004, 06:51 AM

ya i too think the Riders would have won even if Gandalf would not have arrived with Erekenband,I think the orcs would have been hell scared of the trres and would not have dared to hurt them or run into them ,but they could have escaped Gandalf's way.

The Only Real Estel · 05-04-2004, 02:40 PM

Hmmm.

1. Althought the orcs were intially scared of the Riders, I'm sure it wouldn't take them that long to realize that there was-what?- less than a hundred of them left? Eventually the Riders would've been cut down if the Uruks didn't flee up the steep hill that Gandalf wasn't there to come down.

2. If the Uruks did flee, they would've escaped the Riders & regrouped, sooner or later the Riders would've fallen.

3. If the Uruk-Hai would've run from the Riders into the Trees, yeah, the Riders would've won-but-the only reason the Uruks went there in the books was because Gandalf & co. were stopping the other gap.

My opinion is that if the Uruks would've stood & fought, the Riders would've gone down, if the Uruks would've fled, the Riders would eventually have gone down. In other words (

): I think the Uruk-Hais would've won.

Boromir88 · 05-04-2004, 03:50 PM

If Gandalf and Erkenbrand wouldn't of arrived when they did I believe Helm's deep would of fallen, but then would of been killed. To explain, you had Theoden, Legolas, Aragorn, and probably a few others, when Theoden decided to ride out and meet them. Gimli, Eomer and his men were still fighting in the caves I believe. So if Gandalf wouldn't of come when he did Theoden and all who rode out probably would of been killed along with Eomer and Gimli. But then you have Gandalf and company arriving and the Huorns guarding the forest so they wouldn't of gone far.

04-29-2004, 02:23 PM	#1
Phervasaion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The wilderness of Middle-Earth Posts: 306	Helms Deep I was just wondering. At the battle of helms deep, do you think that the Rohirrim still could have won even if Gandalf and Erkenbrand had not turned up in the last minute. I thought the orcs and wild men were fleeing at the sight of the forest and King Theoden before Gandalf showed up at the battle. __________________ Phervasaion

04-29-2004, 03:40 PM	#2
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	I think without the reinforcement's psychological effect the enemiwes would have escaped the route Gandalf appeared, if they would have run at all. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

04-29-2004, 07:58 PM	#3
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	Probably I suppose if the trees remained as a part of the fighting force, the Uruk-hai wouldn't have stood a very good chance. It's so hard to kill an Ent, so that even the fighting force of Saruman could scarce make much of a mark against their anger. Most of their torches (fire would probably be the best [in this case, worst] weapon to use on an ent) would have been dropeed, because it made the Uruks easy targets for archers. __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

05-04-2004, 06:51 AM	#4
rutslegolas Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Elven Lands of India Posts: 533	ya i too think the Riders would have won even if Gandalf would not have arrived with Erekenband,I think the orcs would have been hell scared of the trres and would not have dared to hurt them or run into them ,but they could have escaped Gandalf's way. __________________ If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with the bull - The Phantom.

05-04-2004, 02:40 PM	#5
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Hmmm. 1. Althought the orcs were intially scared of the Riders, I'm sure it wouldn't take them that long to realize that there was-what?- less than a hundred of them left? Eventually the Riders would've been cut down if the Uruks didn't flee up the steep hill that Gandalf wasn't there to come down. 2. If the Uruks did flee, they would've escaped the Riders & regrouped, sooner or later the Riders would've fallen. 3. If the Uruk-Hai would've run from the Riders into the Trees, yeah, the Riders would've won-but-the only reason the Uruks went there in the books was because Gandalf & co. were stopping the other gap. My opinion is that if the Uruks would've stood & fought, the Riders would've gone down, if the Uruks would've fled, the Riders would eventually have gone down. In other words (): I think the Uruk-Hais would've won.

05-04-2004, 03:50 PM	#6
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,519	Good question If Gandalf and Erkenbrand wouldn't of arrived when they did I believe Helm's deep would of fallen, but then would of been killed. To explain, you had Theoden, Legolas, Aragorn, and probably a few others, when Theoden decided to ride out and meet them. Gimli, Eomer and his men were still fighting in the caves I believe. So if Gandalf wouldn't of come when he did Theoden and all who rode out probably would of been killed along with Eomer and Gimli. But then you have Gandalf and company arriving and the Huorns guarding the forest so they wouldn't of gone far.