**RotK - Théoden (Bernard Hill)** - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Estelyn Telcontar · 12-16-2003, 01:00 PM

What did you think of Théoden in this movie and the actor who played him?[ 6:17 AM January 21, 2004: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-17-2003, 01:59 PM

Theoden was good, although the filmmakers really missed the boat with his death scene. It lacked most of the sadness it should have had. (Just read the book, its obvious!)The Ride of the Rohirrim was fantastic though, a real highlight.

BeeBombadil · 12-17-2003, 02:14 PM

His name is Bernard Hill, not Berand. If you haven't seen him before, do a search on imdb.com for his other works and go rent some. He's a fantastically intense actor. I loved him in "Great Expectations" as Magwitch.

Lily Bracegirdle · 12-18-2003, 05:40 PM

I thought his performance was good, though he didn't get much time to make an impression. His performance in TTT was longer and therefore more engrossing. I do agree that his death scene was not all I hoped for. For one thing, it seemed too long (though not as bad as Trinity's interminable one in the Matrix). I kept thinking "you've got a *horse* crushing you, fer goshsakes, stop talking and go into shock already!"-Lily

Gorwingel · 12-19-2003, 12:11 AM

You have to feel sorry for Bernard Hill. I have only seen two of of his films (well if you count the LOTR trilogy as one) and his character died in both of them (he was in Titanic, as the captain, and he had to go down with the ship). But I thought that he did well. The part where he speaks in front of the Rohirrim before the battle was brilliant though. But alas the death scene could have been done better.[ 1:11 AM December 19, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]

Lyta_Underhill · 12-19-2003, 12:45 AM

I've got to agree about Theoden's death scene. It did not touch me the way it should have, and I have an idea of why (at least from my own perspective). The relationship and warmth between Theoden and Merry is completely cut out! There is no "tell me of the herb lore of the Shire when we have more time" and such. There is no "could have beens" and there is no connection between Merry and Theoden, which really makes it for me. I can hope there will be some of this in the Extended Version, esp. since there was no scene to go with the image long released of Merry offering his sword to Theoden. It seemed a bit lopsided for this, since Pippin did his whole part for Denethor. The mirror here is lost. I know I've probably gone on about Merry more than Theoden, but, after all, the work was meant to be hobbito-centric, wasn't it? I think Theoden will benefit from a more central Merry, if it is to be seen...one can only hope!Cheers, Lyta

Gashberz · 12-19-2003, 12:53 AM

I always cried when i read the books becuase he is such a great leader and he died for a just cause!

Finwe · 12-19-2003, 12:23 PM

I think Bernard Hill was a brilliant Theoden, and no other actor could have done the same. He somehow understood that degree of bittersweet acceptance of his death, and you could tell when you saw that scene.

Lalaith · 12-20-2003, 06:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The relationship and warmth between Theoden and Merry is completely cut out! There is no "tell me of the herb lore of the Shire when we have more time" and such. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Because the film Theoden is not the book Theoden. The book Theoden is "a kindly old man" who inspired immediate affection in Merry, the film Theoden a bitter, angry one, who would not be so approachable. I didn't like the change in his character, or the "what do we owe Gondor" business. Rohan's unquestioning allegiance and loyalty to Gondor was for me an integral and most appealing part of that culture's identity. For any king of Rohan to consider shirking his oath of fealty to Gondor was for me as much of an irritation as the Faramir personality change was to Faramir fans.

Nienna, sister of Feanturi · 12-20-2003, 07:02 AM

I think Bernard Hill is a very good actor, but he really isn't my idea of Theoden. The way the films portrayed him really got on my nerves. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The book Theoden is "a kindly old man" who inspired immediate affection in Merry, the film Theoden a bitter, angry one, who would not be so approachable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I couldn't agree more. And how could they leave out Merry offering him his sword? I loved that bit in the books, it could've made for a real tear-jerker when Theoden died. Instead, during the death scene I was just thinking " get on with it I wanna see what happens to Faramir" In my view Theoden was one of the things the film could've done so much better.

Failivrin · 12-20-2003, 03:29 PM

Again, i loved Bernard Hill's performance, but he wasn't really my idea of Theoden; this was probably due to how they had made him look, i think.His death scene went on too long for my liking too and i htink they dumbed it down. I was wondering about Snowmane on top of him too: it was like Snowmane was really heavy when he crushed Theoden, but then lost an awful amount of weight which allowed Theoden to survive just long enough to say some 'meaningful' lines to Eowyn."You already did" is a contender for worst line of the film.

Enedbelethiel · 01-16-2004, 10:09 AM

I thought Bernard Hill's Theoden was great for the movies. As an interpretation of the book Theoden, there were obviously some differences. As to this: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> the film Theoden a bitter, angry one, who would not be so approachable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that PJ wanted the film Theoden to come across as a sort of foil to Aragorn, who was the one giving the courageous and inspiring advice. PJ essentially wanted us to see the rise of Aragorn. If he fleshed out Theoden's character, it would have distracted from the development of Aragorn into the future king. It's unfortunate for Bernard - not to mention us as fans who love the book Theoden - who I think could definitely have pulled off a stronger and more compassionate Theoden (as we saw in his speech to the Rohirrim, which was one of his best and most stirring moments). Nevertheless, we did see his great love for Eowyn and his honorable decision to aid Gondor in its time of need. The film Theoden just had to be "weaker" in order to show Aragorn's coming of age.[ 11:11 AM January 16, 2004: Message edited by: Enedbelethiel ]

12-16-2003, 01:00 PM	#1
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	RotK - Théoden (Bernard Hill) What did you think of Théoden in this movie and the actor who played him?<p>[ 6:17 AM January 21, 2004: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ] __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

12-17-2003, 01:59 PM	#2
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Theoden was good, although the filmmakers really missed the boat with his death scene. It lacked most of the sadness it should have had. (Just read the book, its obvious!)<P>The Ride of the Rohirrim was fantastic though, a real highlight. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-18-2003, 05:40 PM	#4
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	I thought his performance was good, though he didn't get much time to make an impression. His performance in TTT was longer and therefore more engrossing. I do agree that his death scene was not all I hoped for. For one thing, it seemed too long (though not as bad as Trinity's interminable one in the Matrix). I kept thinking "you've got a horse crushing you, fer goshsakes, stop talking and go into shock already!"<P>-Lily __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

12-19-2003, 12:11 AM	#5
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	You have to feel sorry for Bernard Hill. I have only seen two of of his films (well if you count the LOTR trilogy as one) and his character died in both of them (he was in Titanic, as the captain, and he had to go down with the ship). But I thought that he did well. The part where he speaks in front of the Rohirrim before the battle was brilliant though. But alas the death scene could have been done better.<p>[ 1:11 AM December 19, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ] __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

12-19-2003, 12:45 AM	#6
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 841	I've got to agree about Theoden's death scene. It did not touch me the way it should have, and I have an idea of why (at least from my own perspective). The relationship and warmth between Theoden and Merry is completely cut out! There is no "tell me of the herb lore of the Shire when we have more time" and such. There is no "could have beens" and there is no connection between Merry and Theoden, which really makes it for me. I can hope there will be some of this in the Extended Version, esp. since there was no scene to go with the image long released of Merry offering his sword to Theoden. It seemed a bit lopsided for this, since Pippin did his whole part for Denethor. The mirror here is lost. I know I've probably gone on about Merry more than Theoden, but, after all, the work was meant to be hobbito-centric, wasn't it? I think Theoden will benefit from a more central Merry, if it is to be seen...one can only hope!<P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”

12-17-2003, 02:14 PM	#3
BeeBombadil Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Berkeley, CA Posts: 32	His name is Bernard Hill, not Berand. If you haven't seen him before, do a search on imdb.com for his other works and go rent some. He's a fantastically intense actor. I loved him in "Great Expectations" as Magwitch.

12-19-2003, 12:53 AM	#7
Gashberz Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: San Diego, U.S.A Posts: 57	I always cried when i read the books becuase he is such a great leader and he died for a just cause! __________________ "We are the fighting Uruk-hai! We slew the great warrior. We took the prisoners. We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, the White Hand: the Hand that gives us man´s flesh to eat!" -Uglúk

12-19-2003, 12:23 PM	#8
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I think Bernard Hill was a brilliant Theoden, and no other actor could have done the same. He somehow understood that degree of bittersweet acceptance of his death, and you could tell when you saw that scene. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-20-2003, 06:20 AM	#9
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The relationship and warmth between Theoden and Merry is completely cut out! There is no "tell me of the herb lore of the Shire when we have more time" and such. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because the film Theoden is not the book Theoden. The book Theoden is "a kindly old man" who inspired immediate affection in Merry, the film Theoden a bitter, angry one, who would not be so approachable.<BR>I didn't like the change in his character, or the "what do we owe Gondor" business. <BR>Rohan's unquestioning allegiance and loyalty to Gondor was for me an integral and most appealing part of that culture's identity. For any king of Rohan to consider shirking his oath of fealty to Gondor was for me as much of an irritation as the Faramir personality change was to Faramir fans. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

12-20-2003, 07:02 AM	#10
Nienna, sister of Feanturi Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: U.K Posts: 13	I think Bernard Hill is a very good actor, but he really isn't my idea of Theoden. The way the films portrayed him really got on my nerves. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The book Theoden is "a kindly old man" who inspired immediate affection in Merry, the film Theoden a bitter, angry one, who would not be so approachable.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I couldn't agree more. And how could they leave out Merry offering him his sword? I loved that bit in the books, it could've made for a real tear-jerker when Theoden died. Instead, during the death scene I was just thinking " get on with it I wanna see what happens to Faramir" In my view Theoden was one of the things the film could've done so much better. __________________ 'So great was her sorrow, as the music unfolded, that her song turned to lamentation long before the end, and the sound of mourning was woven into the themes of the World before it began.'

12-20-2003, 03:29 PM	#11
Failivrin Wight Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: England Posts: 201	Again, i loved Bernard Hill's performance, but he wasn't really my idea of Theoden; this was probably due to how they had made him look, i think.<P>His death scene went on too long for my liking too and i htink they dumbed it down. I was wondering about Snowmane on top of him too: it was like Snowmane was really heavy when he crushed Theoden, but then lost an awful amount of weight which allowed Theoden to survive just long enough to say some 'meaningful' lines to Eowyn.<P>"You already did" is a contender for worst line of the film. __________________ no one in particular

01-16-2004, 10:09 AM	#12
Enedbelethiel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Imladris Posts: 26	I thought Bernard Hill's Theoden was great for the movies. As an interpretation of the book Theoden, there were obviously some differences. As to this: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> the film Theoden a bitter, angry one, who would not be so approachable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that PJ wanted the film Theoden to come across as a sort of foil to Aragorn, who was the one giving the courageous and inspiring advice. PJ essentially wanted us to see the rise of Aragorn. <P>If he fleshed out Theoden's character, it would have distracted from the development of Aragorn into the future king. It's unfortunate for Bernard - not to mention us as fans who love the book Theoden - who I think could definitely have pulled off a stronger and more compassionate Theoden (as we saw in his speech to the Rohirrim, which was one of his best and most stirring moments). <P>Nevertheless, we did see his great love for Eowyn and his honorable decision to aid Gondor in its time of need. The film Theoden just had to be "weaker" in order to show Aragorn's coming of age.<p>[ 11:11 AM January 16, 2004: Message edited by: Enedbelethiel ] __________________ Not all who wander are lost...