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08-07-2005, 03:49 PM | #1 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
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LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 06 - The Battle of Pelennor Fields
This chapter picks up the narrative where Chapter 4 ended - with the Nazgûl King at the Gate of Minas Tirith. Though things are not going as he planned, he is not defeated yet.
The narrator describes the battle scene, following Théoden, and only after he falls do we get Merry's point of view again. Dernhelm is revealed and Éowyn's bravery sparks Merry's courage so that, between the two of them, they accomplish the seemingly impossible task. This scene provides us with some of the most famous lines of the story - and sheer endless debates on the prophecy concerning the Witch King's death and the part the two and their weapons had to play in it. I was struck by Éowyn's fearlessness in rereading this chapter. Do you think this results from her upbringing and Rohirric tradition, or is it because of her hopelessness, which is greater than any fear? How does Théoden's death scene with his words to Merry affect you? Merry asks the question about Gandalf's whereabouts for the readers; it will be answered in the next chapter. What do you suppose Éomer thought when he saw his sister on the battlefield instead of safe at home, where he must have assumed she was? He asks if it is madness or devilry, so he obviously didn't know of her presence with the troops. Does his fey mood help or hinder the battle? A bit later, we read, "his fury had betrayed him". Isn't it unusual that Snowmane, a horse that has such a terrible role in the death of its master, is buried with a gravestone that even has a poem on it? Do you remember your first reading of the book - did you think Éowyn was dead, as did Merry and the Rohirrim? Prince Imrahil, a favourite minor character of many, plays a small but important part here. The battle continues, and things worsen for the allies, seeming to get even worse with the arrival of the Corsair ships. Even the wind that had seemed friendly to them now seems to have brought more hosts of enemies. Then comes Arwen's finest hour! The banner she made for Aragorn turns their hearts to hope and the tides of the battle to victory. Hard fighting and high losses finish off the chapter, with a glimpse of a future song by a Rohirric poet. Let's discuss the poetry in this chapter as well as the events - there are several short poems in addition to the longer one at the end. Though relatively short in length, the chapter is packed full and gives us much to talk about!
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
08-08-2005, 01:04 AM | #2 | ||||
Deadnight Chanter
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affect me? yes, it does...
I won't come out with analysis this time round, but as one of the questions posed in Esty's initial post inquired about feelings, let me state that this is a chapter to send shivers down my spine more often than not (only surpassed by Rohirrim horns in the morning by the end of chapter 4 with regards to intensity of shivers ). My skin prickles as I read through the verses of the chapter:
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But Aragorn is again symbolic figure, the King to bring the Hope back, and his dialogue with Éomer upon their foretold meeting on the battlefield is another piece to make my hair stand on end: Quote:
And as is oft with Tolkien, the chapter resolves not in a tense of the battle, but in a tender reflection upon future lament made for the fallen, thus, indirectly hinting there will be a future, giving the attentive reader hope that despite present horror and hopelessness, there still will be people to sing: Quote:
Talking of feelings again, it helps (in my personal case, of course) to 'feel the chapter' even more intensely if reading it simultaneously listening to Nightwish, album 'Century Child', specially 'End of All Hope' song, the very thing I'm doing alongside composing this post
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Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! |
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08-08-2005, 11:45 AM | #3 | |
Riveting Ribbiter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Assigned to Mordor
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It's good to be back...
Éowyn's courage is a highlight in this chapter. I think there are several factors that bring out her fearlessness.
Hopelessness is a major factor. For the last few chapters, she has been looking for death, and it is that impression which remained with Merry during their ride together. But even more than despair, I think Éowyn draws on love for Théoden. Quote:
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People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff. |
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08-08-2005, 12:12 PM | #4 | ||
Dead Serious
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The episode of Theoden's fall, the Witchking's defeat, and the victory (and wounding) of Eowyn and Merry is the iconic episode of this Chapter, but to me the part that always stands out in my mind is the onslaught of the Rohirrim AFTER Theoden's death as Eomer- and the subsequent passage:
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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08-08-2005, 12:36 PM | #5 | |
Princess of Skwerlz
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Quote:
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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08-08-2005, 07:52 PM | #6 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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Along a similar line, it is fear for another rather than himself that awoke Merry's slow-kindled courage of his race.
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
08-09-2005, 11:16 AM | #7 | |
Bittersweet Symphony
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More substantial thoughts when I have the book with me. |
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08-12-2005, 01:04 AM | #8 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tottering about in the Wild
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Ah, this is one of my favorite chapters, for so many reasons.
One of the things I've found interesting about this chapter is the way it manages to give the reader a sense of the family feelings of Theoden and his 'adopted children', Eomer and Eowyn. They are his own kin to start with, and Eomer is the next in line biologically, but there is a sense of sincere caring between the three of them. As Celuien points out, Eowyn is strongly motivated to take her stand against the Witch King out of love for Theoden. I agree that she is more motivated by that love than by her despair and her upbringing. Eomer's cry of "Death take us all!" after Eowyn is found dead (he thinks) on the battlefield is despairing, but I think it's despair rooted at least partially in shock and grief at having lost the very last members of his family -- one of whom he thought safe back in Rohan. And as he is dying, Theoden thinks of his place among his ancestors as well as the family he's leaving behind, specifically calling Eowyn "dearer than daughter". Compare the feelings these three express in their words and actions to Denethor's treatment of Faramir!
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08-20-2005, 07:54 AM | #9 | |||||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,996
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Some rambling observations here for this incredible chapter, which I must say has always drawn from me strong emotions.
Estelyn mentioned how the title of our last chapter used alliteration. There's lots in the poems in this chapter which imitate Old English style--which I would assume comes from Frodo the real narrator rather than be one of Merry's perceptions--but one of my favourite lines is the following: Quote:
The strange winged creature who bears the Witch King. Where does it come from? It is a creature out of a dark, primeval past, as Shelob and Ungoliant? Quote:
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There is one other passage that I think is highly ambiguous. (I'm not sure if we will be called upon to suggest a movement between Frodo's recollections and his POV and his attempt to suggest Merry's POV.) Quote:
There's a possibility of answer at the end of the chapter: Quote:
I'm probably bringing in primary world assumptions about war, but I wonder if there is not something here which suggests Tolkien's own conflicted attitudes about war. Is there a Middle-earth Clausewitz?
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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08-20-2005, 08:05 AM | #10 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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08-20-2005, 08:49 AM | #11 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,996
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So it's just another sleight of fiction then, eh, Kuru? And "fell people" as well will fit that category.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
08-20-2005, 09:44 AM | #12 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Yet another instance where things revolve around the word "like."
The word "like" is used. For somebody like me, in order to be consistent, I must take the view that these were not in fact half-trolls but only looked like...er...I mean similar to a troll.
Not to get too technical but I see a number of problems with breeding humans and trolls together. Quote:
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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11-10-2005, 02:43 AM | #13 |
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
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*pops in*
Eowyn fought as a woman.
She could have trembled in fear before the Witch King, surrendering to hopelessness in full knowledge that there's no way she can defeat him. (After all, she was of the 'race' of Men.) Or she could have chosen to ignore the Witch King's statement and continue to fight as a man, as Dernhelm. In doing so, she would be less likely to be underestimated in terms of strength. A woman in the midst of battle could either have been played around with (so to speak) or slain right away by such a powerful enemy, no matter how skilled she might be. But Eowyn risked her life by letting down her hair and revealing her womanhood. She most probably had no idea that there is a prophecy concerning her foe's fall, so that knowledge could not aid her. For all she knew, she was just taking a bold yet stupid move, not to mention clarifying things. But her boldness was rewarded. Where sufficient strength could have been found not, victory emerged. (I don't know if that was clear, but the general idea sure made sense in my mind.) *disappears like a bubble* |
07-15-2007, 11:42 PM | #14 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 07-16-2007 at 12:09 AM. |
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03-09-2019, 06:08 PM | #15 |
Dead Serious
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Structurally, "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields" starts with a fairly wide focus, following the Rohirrim into battle. It zooms in like a camera on a helicopter (or a Fell Beast) to Theoden as he is felled by the Witch-king. The encounter with Eowyn is almost intimate: it's two figures on the stage; Merry is almost an eavesdropper.
And then, slowly, after Merry and Eowyn have won their surprsing victory, the camera pulls away again. I still agree with much-younger Formendacil that the eucatastrophic arrival of Aragorn is a favourite part--though I would narrow down my specific moment of joy not to the fact that it is Aragorn (though, of course, it is) but the unveiling of Elendil's standard. We were told in "Minas Tirith" that only the Guard of the Citadel still bear the black and silver with the Tree of Gondor--a last ceremonial memory. Here that memory (and it's a High Priestly one) arrives at the most desperate hour in the flesh. On a far more minor note, the emergence of Aragorn, Eomer, and Imrahil as a Three Musketeers-esque trio pleases me.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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03-09-2019, 07:48 PM | #16 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I just reread this chapter because I couldn't keep away. I actually started with the previous one and got carried forward by the momentum. Here we see the resolution of the tension that was building in Merry's story line since his separation from the rest of the Fellowship. The tension peaks in the previous chapter, with Merry having lots of second thoughts about his decisions and struggling to master his fear of the upcoming battle, and seeing Theoden doubt their efforts and their chances - and now the battle is there and they are fighting.
The whole chapter is an emotional roller coaster for the characters and the readers alike. The Rohirrim have come - but Theoden dies - but Eowyn kills the Witch-King - but Rohan's forces are insufficient to overcome the hordes of Mordor - and the corsairs are coming - but they aren't corsairs, it's Aragorn and the saving of the city. There are so many ups and downs packed within this chapter, and each one of them is emotionally loaded, so this chapter is packed with energy. I don't think there's another chapter in the legendarium that is packed with such an intense roller coaster as this one. Either the mood doesn't change as drastically and rapidly from grief to elation to dread and back again, or the events are not as emotionally charged. There has been some talk above about Eowyn: though her journey was spurred by hopelessness and almost passive suicide, her encounter with the WK was spurred by love and defiance. I think that's absolutely true, but I also think that there are more links between her two states than this dichotomy implies. Firstly, I think that hopelessness is what partially played into her courage; not to understate her own inherent courage, but she seemed beyond the bravery of other men. It's almost like she has nothing to fear from the WK because she has nothing to lose. There is no blinding her with an animal fear of death because she seeks death, she is not afraid of it beyond the bravery of non-suicidal people. She is also incredibly firm in her identity and proud of it. It's part of what drove her to desperation, because with that understanding of identity she strove for goals and hopes that were out of her reach. But now it's what keeps her going: she is proud and steadfast in her convictions. The Eowyn scene is my favourite part of the chapter. My heart still soars and falls with every new turn of the roller coaster, but this is the part that I reread the oftenest. I think I'm a bit of a Merry here: wanting to be inspired to be the better person by all that Eowyn is in that moment. Merry is the person in the scene I more readily compare myself to - I don't even hope to be an Eowyn in that situation, I know I wouldn't have the guts, but I hope I could be a Merry.
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