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05-19-2006, 05:28 AM | #1 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chozo Ruins.
Posts: 421
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Saruman the Good
What do you think would have happened had Saruman not turned to evil ways in LOTR?
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05-19-2006, 05:44 AM | #2 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 257
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Well he would have been pretty helpfull, like rallying Rohan instead of Gandalf after returning from death. Rhohan could have arrived earlier with forces.
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05-19-2006, 06:04 AM | #3 |
Wight
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: In the house of Tom Bombariffic
Posts: 196
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would have been a whole different book!
Loads of implications, wouldn't necessarily have worked out though...for example pippin would not have looked into the palantir, thus jeapordising the entire ending! On balabce thoguh, I'm sure with the help of isengard, it would have worked out in the end though, even though it would have been very different. Something tells me Gandalf and Saruman together would not have been defeated. bombariffic
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05-19-2006, 07:47 AM | #4 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
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However, the orcs who attacked at Parth Galen were Saruman's orcs. Although the breaking of the fellowship seemed catastrophic at the time it was vital for the success of the Quest.
The ring would not have been destroyed without the intervention of Gollum at the last moment. If there had not been the attack at Parth Galen it would have been a different and larger group going to Mordor. My guess is that they would not have got so far as the 2 hobbits alone guided by the duplicitous Gollum. The other key to the success ofthe quest was the emptying of Mordor of troops at the vital time. While Helms' Deep weakened the Rohirrim it did put them in a state of readiness that by the time the red arrow arrived they were already on their way. Also without the pursuit of the Hobbits into Rohan, Aragorn would surely not have been taking the paths of the Dead as his route into Gondor. The two fortuitous arrivals of the armies of Rohan and the Dead enabled the Captains of the West to hold off the enemy at Minas Tirith and create the diversion at the Black gates. A good Saruman would not have hadTheoden under a malign influence and without that Eowyn might not have been desperate enough to ride to war and fulfil the Prophecy of Gloprfindel regarding the Witch King (especially since she would nothave met Aragorn). If Boromir had survived (no orc attack remember!), I can't see Denethor killing himself regardless of what happened of Faramir, This would have shifted the dynamic of the Lords of the West. Denethor would still be influenced by the gloomy visions of hte Palantir and it is not hard to imagine that he would have not supported the attack on the Black Gate as the more positive Imrahil did. In short ... tom bomabariffic is right it would be a very different book!
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05-19-2006, 07:53 AM | #5 |
Gibbering Gibbet
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Beyond cloud nine
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But isn't this just what happened when Gandalf became the White? He pretty clearly states that he is Saruman, or "Saruman as he was meant to be." So when Saruman went evil, he was replaced by Gandalf who became the new/true Saruman: Saruman the White/Good.
Which makes me think. If Gandalf the White really is "Saruman as he was meant to be" then does not this imply that it was Saruman's role to rally Rohan, save Minas Tirith and Crown Aragorn? Maybe this all ties back to Gandalf's other claim that he is "a steward" -- Saruman is properly the white, but he (like the line of Isildur) "has failed" and so his role is taken up by his steward Gandalf.
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05-19-2006, 12:54 PM | #6 | |
Laconic Loreman
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To add a little bit more, if Saruman had not turned to "evil" there would be no reason for Gandalf to recieve a "power boost," and come back after dying in his fight with the Balrog.
As Fordim points out "Gandalf was as Saruman should have been." And if Saruman stayed the right course and had not left the "path to wisdom," then Eru would have no reason to send Gandalf back: Quote:
Had Saruman not gone bad, there would be no reason to send back Gandalf, because Saruman would be the one doing what Gandalf had done when he returned as "Gandalf the White." I will say if Saruman had not gone "bad," it probably would have made the people's of Middle-earth's lives a lot easier.
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05-19-2006, 02:22 PM | #7 | ||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
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Well, that's a pretty big 'what if' question! Saruman not going 'bad' would just about alter the whole story! Which just goes to show how pivotal he is to the plot.
Quote:
Is this Gandalf the same Gandalf the Grey who came from Valinor or has a "New Gandalf" been sent back? Quote:
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