Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Telchar · 08-09-2001, 11:29 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ghost-Prince of Cardolan
Posts: 902</TD><TD><img src=http://www.hbgk.dk/terning.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Eeeaaasy Boy - Steady now, steady! THIS IS NOT ANOTHER BALROG WINGS DISCUSSION!!!!
It's only a little pole, that hopefully will let us see how the distribution between "Pro-wings" and "Pro-nonwings" is on the Barrow-Downs.

So vote - please only one vote per person! If you doo feel the need to reply to this topic then please limit it to "I am personaly against or pro wings"!!! And take the discussion to the books-forum where it belongs - Thanks in advance.

<img src=smokin.gif ALT=":smokin"> T

<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Results (total votes = 11):<table bgcolor=#FFFFFF border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0 width="75%"> <tbody> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Balrogs do not have wings!!!&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>2 / 18.2%&nbsp</td><td><img src=bar.gif width=54 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Balrogs do have wings!!!&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>9 / 81.8%&nbsp</td><td><img src=bar.gif width=245 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr></tbody> </table>

<marquee>It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes!!! ... Anar kaluva tielyanna!</marquee></p>

red · 08-10-2001, 09:21 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mischief
Posts: 342</TD><TD><img src=http://www.bestanimations.com/Science/Biology/DNA/DNA-02.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll

You forgot the option that says, "There is insufficient evidence to make a choice." - which is the only real answer.

-red

<blockquote><font size=2>

"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer."</p>

-A Short Rest, The Hobbit</p></blockquote></p>

[ December 24, 2001: Message edited by: red ]

Earendilyon · 08-15-2001, 12:15 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 19</TD><TD><img src=http://www2.tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/i/authorsicons/house_of_earendil.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll

Of course they hadn't!!

"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." </p>

Drew2K1 · 08-15-2001, 12:44 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 69</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll

I would say "There is insufficient evidence to made a choice." I have been through periods of thinking both, yes and no, but I am not sure.

</p>

***Mithadan*** · 08-15-2001, 12:47 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
Posts: 939</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll

Wings!

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

Telchar · 08-16-2001, 03:03 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ghost-Prince of Cardolan
Posts: 975</TD><TD><img src=http://www.hbgk.dk/terning.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll

I can understand your arguments very well - but thats not the issue - this poll is for those who have made up their mind or have a clear picture in their minds of what a balrog looks like...

Personally I agree - There is not suficient evidence of either case - Still my barogs have wings, its that simple <img src=cool.gif ALT="8)">

<marquee>It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes!!! ... Anar kaluva tielyanna!</marquee></p>

10-01-2001, 07:31 PM

Yes, wings. It's clear actually. In FOTR, it says that the wings stretched from one wall to another. this is after the controvertial part about the shadow like wings.

Elenhin · 10-03-2001, 06:08 AM

You want to debate that, Arwen? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

(And no, they didn't have wings)

Halbarad · 10-03-2001, 08:08 PM

(My penultimate post on this topic)Perhaps it would pay to put up some QUOTES. I don't recall having read any definite quotes (page number etc) in this whole debate. But red has convinced me for now- insufficient evidence, we need another option.

P.S What are all these non-novices doing on this page any way

[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: Halbarad ]

Elenhin · 10-05-2001, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halbarad:
<STRONG>Perhaps it would pay to put up some QUOTES. I don't recall having read any definite quotes (page number etc) in this whole debate.</STRONG>

This thread was a poll, not a debate.

Elrian · 11-04-2001, 01:09 AM

"They arose and passed over Hithlum"

Wings! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Luthien · 11-18-2001, 10:26 PM

Yep, wings [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Orald · 11-19-2001, 12:09 AM

Always falling to their death, no wings, besides, balrogs are creatures of fire and shadow, it is hard to fly if wings are made out of shadow.

Eowyn of Ithilien · 11-19-2001, 02:20 AM

not necessarily...I don't really have an opinion on this topic, I'm just making life difficult [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

12-23-2001, 09:40 PM

Here I have a quote.
My one volume edition of Lord of the Rings is one with a Greenish pic of Gandalf on the cover with gold bands of Dwarven runes on the top and bottom. I pull this quote from page 349, and the Chapter is 'The Bridge of Khazad-Dum'.

Quote:

The Balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen, glimmering in the gloom; ....

I believe that answers the question.

[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: Argoth ]

[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: Argoth ]

12-23-2001, 09:48 PM

One could also look at unofficial sources, as well. I have the Lord of the Rings RPG, by Iron Crown Enterprises, in which they depict the Balrog with wings. One could also look at the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, Second Edition, Monster Manual picture of the Pit Fiend which is based on the Balrog (in my opinion).

One thing I just thought of....
This could just be the way that this particular Balrog looks like, others could have other large similar monstrous form without wings. I believe the Balrogs were at one time creatures that could alter their shape as many evil things could, but due to massive uses of power they became stuck in these forms. I'll have to look through some books to be sure, though.

Fenrir · 12-24-2001, 11:28 AM

Please! Keep this to official sources! If we bring in unofficial material we'll still be debating balrogs next century.
Balrogs have wings!

Dáin Ironfoot · 12-24-2001, 07:29 PM

I believe they had them, but nowhere does it state that they flew!

12-24-2001, 08:32 PM

Well said Dáin Ironfoot, that is exactly right, if they did have wings, why didn't the balrog fly when it fell in Moria?

Evil Anya · 12-31-2001, 06:43 PM

The line about the wings stretching out from wall to wall seems to settle the question. However, it can be read as the shadow that happens to look like wings stretching out behind it. In my mind balrogs have wings but there is no way i can prove it.

Elendil · 01-01-2002, 07:48 AM

Wings! But they didn't fly.

Schvenn Of The Schack · 01-01-2002, 09:18 AM

They had wings but didn't fly?
So you're saying that the Balrog is basically a giant chicken.
hmmmm.....
That be one scary chicken.
If Mel Gibson has played the part of a Balron in Chicken Run methinks he would have made short work of the farmers.
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

01-02-2002, 04:58 AM

They had wings Tolkein says it in The Fellowship of the Ring read the book!

Eowyn of Ithilien · 01-02-2002, 05:05 AM

lol chickens do so fly-unless you clip their wings
ooooooh maybe that's what Gandalf did
*will stop being sarcastic* [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
although if Tolkien said they had wings I don't think he would have been simply allegorical (is that the right word?) as he usual describes things in detail

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 01-02-2002, 02:30 PM

Ha! The Balrog Chicken!

Wings, yes, they have wings.

Dwarin Thunderhammer · 01-02-2002, 03:04 PM

They had wings, in my humble opionion.

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Dwarin Thunderhammer ]

onewhitetree · 01-02-2002, 03:21 PM

This may help you all.

Elendil · 01-02-2002, 03:31 PM

"Hey Butterbur, a serving of fried Balrog wings for me!"

Tirinor · 01-02-2002, 03:59 PM

some cars have wings, maxi pads have wings, penguins have wings. children wear water wings in the pool. wings have other uses besides for flying. and i imagine wings of shadow could be put to very good use.
fly or no, Balrogs have wings, Tolkien says so.

Turambar · 01-02-2002, 04:04 PM

Counting ppl who posted on this thread, 14 pro-wing'ers and only 3 no-wing'ers, if I counted right. Even adding me to the no-wing'ers, that's a pretty solid majority for the pro-wing'ers (78%).

08-09-2001, 11:29 PM	#1
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll <font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ghost-Prince of Cardolan Posts: 902</TD><TD><img src=http://www.hbgk.dk/terning.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Eeeaaasy Boy - Steady now, steady! THIS IS NOT ANOTHER BALROG WINGS DISCUSSION!!!! It's only a little pole, that hopefully will let us see how the distribution between "Pro-wings" and "Pro-nonwings" is on the Barrow-Downs. So vote - please only one vote per person! If you doo feel the need to reply to this topic then please limit it to "I am personaly against or pro wings"!!! And take the discussion to the books-forum where it belongs - Thanks in advance. <img src=smokin.gif ALT=":smokin"> T <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Results (total votes = 11):<table bgcolor=#FFFFFF border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0 width="75%"> <tbody> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Balrogs do not have wings!!!&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>2 / 18.2%&nbsp</td><td><img src=bar.gif width=54 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Balrogs do have wings!!!&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>9 / 81.8%&nbsp</td><td><img src=bar.gif width=245 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr></tbody> </table> <marquee>It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes!!! ... Anar kaluva tielyanna!</marquee></p> __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

08-10-2001, 09:21 AM	#2
red Spirit of Mischief Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Land of the free and home of the brave Posts: 366	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mischief Posts: 342</TD><TD><img src=http://www.bestanimations.com/Science/Biology/DNA/DNA-02.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll You forgot the option that says, "There is insufficient evidence to make a choice." - which is the only real answer. -red <blockquote><font size=2> "He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer."</p> -A Short Rest, The Hobbit</p></blockquote></p> [ December 24, 2001: Message edited by: red ] __________________ "Cats are like greatness: Some people are born into cat-loving families, some achieve cats, and some have cats thrust upon them." -William H. A. Carr

08-15-2001, 12:15 PM	#3
Earendilyon Wight Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 166	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 19</TD><TD><img src=http://www2.tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/i/authorsicons/house_of_earendil.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll Of course they hadn't!! "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." </p> __________________ "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia.

08-15-2001, 12:47 PM	#5
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,374	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist Posts: 939</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll Wings! --Mithadan-- "The Silmarils with living light were kindled clear, and waxing bright shone like stars that in the North above the reek of earth leap forth." </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

08-16-2001, 03:03 AM	#6
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ghost-Prince of Cardolan Posts: 975</TD><TD><img src=http://www.hbgk.dk/terning.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll I can understand your arguments very well - but thats not the issue - this poll is for those who have made up their mind or have a clear picture in their minds of what a balrog looks like... Personally I agree - There is not suficient evidence of either case - Still my barogs have wings, its that simple <img src=cool.gif ALT="8)"> <marquee>It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes!!! ... Anar kaluva tielyanna!</marquee></p> __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

08-15-2001, 12:44 PM	#4
Drew2K1 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 59	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 69</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Barrow-Downs-Balrog-Wings-Poll I would say "There is insufficient evidence to made a choice." I have been through periods of thinking both, yes and no, but I am not sure. </p>

10-01-2001, 07:31 PM	#7
IthaJoyII Guest Posts: n/a	Yes, wings. It's clear actually. In FOTR, it says that the wings stretched from one wall to another. this is after the controvertial part about the shadow like wings.

10-03-2001, 06:08 AM	#8
Elenhin Wight Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Vantaa, Finland Posts: 205	You want to debate that, Arwen? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] (And no, they didn't have wings)

10-03-2001, 08:08 PM	#9
Halbarad Wight Join Date: May 2001 Location: Cheongju, Korea Posts: 147	(My penultimate post on this topic)Perhaps it would pay to put up some QUOTES. I don't recall having read any definite quotes (page number etc) in this whole debate. But red has convinced me for now- insufficient evidence, we need another option. P.S What are all these non-novices doing on this page any way [ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: Halbarad ] __________________ -Halbarad to Aragorn, 'The Passing of the Grey Company' Book V, Return of the King."A little people, but of great worth are the Shire-folk. Little do they know of our long labour for the safekeeping of their borders, and yet I grudge it not"

11-04-2001, 01:09 AM	#11
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	"They arose and passed over Hithlum" Wings! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

11-18-2001, 10:26 PM	#12
Luthien Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 20	Yep, wings [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

11-19-2001, 12:09 AM	#13
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	Always falling to their death, no wings, besides, balrogs are creatures of fire and shadow, it is hard to fly if wings are made out of shadow.

11-19-2001, 02:20 AM	#14
Eowyn of Ithilien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 277	not necessarily...I don't really have an opinion on this topic, I'm just making life difficult [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.

12-23-2001, 09:48 PM	#16
Argoth Guest Posts: n/a	One could also look at unofficial sources, as well. I have the Lord of the Rings RPG, by Iron Crown Enterprises, in which they depict the Balrog with wings. One could also look at the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, Second Edition, Monster Manual picture of the Pit Fiend which is based on the Balrog (in my opinion). One thing I just thought of.... This could just be the way that this particular Balrog looks like, others could have other large similar monstrous form without wings. I believe the Balrogs were at one time creatures that could alter their shape as many evil things could, but due to massive uses of power they became stuck in these forms. I'll have to look through some books to be sure, though.

12-24-2001, 11:28 AM	#17
Fenrir Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nevrast Posts: 103	Please! Keep this to official sources! If we bring in unofficial material we'll still be debating balrogs next century. Balrogs have wings! __________________ Fearlessness is better than a faint-heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.

12-24-2001, 07:29 PM	#18
Dáin Ironfoot Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 33	I believe they had them, but nowhere does it state that they flew! __________________ "Understanding your people paves the road to understanding leadership"- Old Atreides maxim

12-24-2001, 08:32 PM	#19
The Prince of Dol Amroth Guest Posts: n/a	Well said Dáin Ironfoot, that is exactly right, if they did have wings, why didn't the balrog fly when it fell in Moria?

12-31-2001, 06:43 PM	#20
Evil Anya Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 28	The line about the wings stretching out from wall to wall seems to settle the question. However, it can be read as the shadow that happens to look like wings stretching out behind it. In my mind balrogs have wings but there is no way i can prove it.

01-01-2002, 07:48 AM	#21
Elendil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 57	Wings! But they didn't fly.

01-01-2002, 09:18 AM	#22
Schvenn Of The Schack Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 16	They had wings but didn't fly? So you're saying that the Balrog is basically a giant chicken. hmmmm..... That be one scary chicken. If Mel Gibson has played the part of a Balron in Chicken Run methinks he would have made short work of the farmers. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ http://www3.sympatico.ca/craig.plath...ftheschack.gif

01-02-2002, 04:58 AM	#23
Telepréion the Elf Guest Posts: n/a	They had wings Tolkein says it in The Fellowship of the Ring read the book!

01-02-2002, 05:05 AM	#24
Eowyn of Ithilien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 277	lol chickens do so fly-unless you clip their wings ooooooh maybe that's what Gandalf did will stop being sarcastic [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] although if Tolkien said they had wings I don't think he would have been simply allegorical (is that the right word?) as he usual describes things in detail __________________ But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.

01-02-2002, 02:30 PM	#25
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	Ha! The Balrog Chicken! Wings, yes, they have wings. __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?

01-02-2002, 03:04 PM	#26
Dwarin Thunderhammer Khazad-Doomed Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Green Dragon Posts: 182	They had wings, in my humble opionion. [ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Dwarin Thunderhammer ] __________________ “Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd aimênu!” Come visit The Rohan RPG! The only RPG to fanfic on the downs! Without law there can be no freedom. Without justice there can be no law.

01-02-2002, 03:21 PM	#27
onewhitetree Seeker of Syntax Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Scene of the Crime Posts: 264	This may help you all. __________________ onewhitetree (also known as Kate) Well, I'M BACK.

01-02-2002, 03:31 PM	#28
Elendil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 57	"Hey Butterbur, a serving of fried Balrog wings for me!"

01-02-2002, 03:59 PM	#29
Tirinor Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Alabama, U.S.A. Posts: 90	some cars have wings, maxi pads have wings, penguins have wings. children wear water wings in the pool. wings have other uses besides for flying. and i imagine wings of shadow could be put to very good use. fly or no, Balrogs have wings, Tolkien says so. __________________ War Eagle.

01-02-2002, 04:04 PM	#30
Turambar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Non-Stop Home Posts: 859	Counting ppl who posted on this thread, 14 pro-wing'ers and only 3 no-wing'ers, if I counted right. Even adding me to the no-wing'ers, that's a pretty solid majority for the pro-wing'ers (78%). __________________ In the upper air the fireflies move more slowly.