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#1 | |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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This is the first draft of the chapter Of the Sindar
Our basis text is that of the Grey Annals given in HoME 11; page 9-16. Wherever the text is different from that this is marked by an editing mark. The markings are: OS-xx for any questions about the accuracy or canon aspect of the phrase or section. OS-MT-xx for Main Text of the chapter constructed out of the pertinent Grey Annals entries. Some conventions of my writing: Normal Text is from the basic text that is mentioned above (when I change the basic-Text it will be mentioned) Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks {example} = text that should be deleted [example] = normalised text, normally only used for general changes <source example> = additions with source information ...... = This section of the paragraph is unchanged from the source. Quote:
OS-01: This title is used in the Published Silmarillion, but as this chapter was derived entirely from the Grey Annals, there is no corresponding Silmarillion chapter, and thus no name. I cannot find a different name, so I am going with Christopher's, unless anyone can think of a better one. OS-MT-01: I moved this entry up because Christopher used it as the basis of the start of the chapter in the Sil77. It does a better job at introducing the chapter than the previous entry. OS-MT-02: Moved here from above. OS-MT-03: Next entry in sequence. OS-02: This first part of the paragraph may need to be deleted due to the inclusion of the Of Aule and the Dwarves section earlier. However, I am not sure if the name Mahal occurs anywhere else, so it might be a shame to lose it. OS-MT-04: This subheading is in the next entry. OS-MT-05: Next in sequence OS-MT-06: Next in sequence OS-MT-07: Next in sequence OS-MT-08: This subheading is in the next entry. OS-MT-09: Next in sequence OS-03: Change because of the loss of the sons of the Valar. OS-MT-10: Next in sequence. By the way, is it Ungoliante or Ungoliant? OS-04: We have been referring to him as Morgoth already, so I removed this part. OS-05: Changed to fit the later concept of Angband as already existing. OS-MT-11: next in sequence OS-06: Tolkien here makes a note that something should be said of "Orgol and the Guest Elves of Arthorien" but does not provide much framework. I was unsure how to best insert something. Perhaps you could help? OS-MT-12: next in sequence OS-07: Removed because of the uncertainty of the time relation between Years of the Trees and Years of the Sun. That is everything I saw. I am not sure how much posted will infringe on copyright, so I tried to keep it to a minimum. |
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#2 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,714
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One short answer, because I found it just now:
It is Ungoliant since we find in thus in LotR. Respectfully Findegil |
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#3 | ||||||
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,714
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OS-MT-07.1: I think we have to eliminate the years counting at the beginning of OS-MT-07.
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OS-MT-03.1: ‘In this year’ does not go, since we do not have the year number in front like in GA. Therefore I think we could use Christopher Tolkiens take at it. OS.MT-03.2 As Of Dwarves and Men we learn that the dwarves of the Ered Luin awoke in the North of that Mountain chain not farther East. Quote:
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Findegil |
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#4 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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OS-MT-07.1: Why must it be eliminated? It is not involved in the difficulties in relating the lengths of the Years of the Trees and the Years of the Sun, so I do not see the difficulty.
OS-03: Why? It is said in the Darkening of Valinor chapter that he will be referred to as Morgoth thenceforth. OS-MT-03.2: This is in reference to all Dwarves though, not just the Blue Mountains ones. As Durin is the eldest, he did indeed awake further east, and his mansions are said to be in Gundabad. OS-MT-3.2: agreed. OS-06: Agreed. OS-05 (07): agreed. |
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#5 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,714
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OS-MT-07.1: When we consider a change in the relation between Valian Year and Sun Year possibly occurred, then what would Tolkien have changed? The time that elapsed between the events recorded in the Annals or the dates of the Annals? Since we cannot say yeah or no we should act safely and skip such dates.
OS-03: Because what Tolkien did do here is exactly retelling the naming of Melkor as Morgoth. And I thought that in this case the change is unnecessary. OS-MT-03.2: Since it is in reference to all Dwarves ‘east’ would only be true for a part of them in the new conception found in Of Dwarves and Men. In the old conception it is true for all Dwarves that their fathers awoke in the east. Therefore I think the only think that can be safely said about all the places of the awkening of the Dwarves is that they were in the north. OS-MT-03.2: {; and few … : Sorry, I doubled the marker number! We will rename this change to OS-MT-03.5. Respectfully Findegil |
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#6 | ||||
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 43
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A couple contradictions I noticed, which I've underlined for emphasis. First up:
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Last edited by Elvellon; 07-05-2024 at 03:37 PM. Reason: Added bit about the Nandor. |
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