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Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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LotR3-RotK-Seq15
Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is. - The Outlaw Josie Wales
*** Regarding the first scene, The Witch-King’s Hour, please see the additional note at the bottom of the post. *** The Battle Trolls stalk the soldiers like prey; the orcs find those hiding. Gandalf, signaling for a retreat to the Second Level, calls to “get the women and children out,” and that makes no sense. Was Minas Tirith so in need of soldiers that it had everyone on the line? Or is PJ just making the situation appear even more desperate as we feel more for those not in armor? We quickly switch over to Gothmog, who tells his radioman to let the troops know that the order of the day is to kill all and let Eru sort them out. And to think that, until this moment, I thought that the orcs and Battle Trolls were going to give the civilians bars of chocolate… ![]() Note that the Gate is still manned and soldiers shoot arrows both at those entering that Gate and those having entered. In my book, this means that Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, and his men still hold the Gate. The up-close-and-personal shots continue – maybe too much, as we see soldiers and civilians being overrun by the Mordor hordes. By the by, do any of the orcs look like Darth Maul (i.e. members of the Zabrak race) to you? The carnage piles up. Gandalf, having taken over the role of Mr. Obvious, tells everyone to “Fight for your lives!” It’s just wonderful dialogue, surely written by either Tolkien or Shakespeare. And you almost get the feeling that Gandalf left the thought unfinished, as he meant to say, “…as I’m leaving on the next Eagle out of here. Buh-bye!” In the mess a small voice is heard calling to Gandalf. It’s Pip, seeking out the White Wizard. Why, I don’t know. Finding Gandalf, Pippin yells and tells of Denethor’s madness, that the Steward intends on burning his son alive. Gandalf, finding a foe that is more his match, and conveniently up on the cushy Seventh Level where nary a Battle Troll can be found, rides off in haste. But wait! Something bars his way. It’s the Witch-King of Angmar, Lord of the Nazgûl, the Captain of Despair, Last to be Drowned in the Flooding of the Ford of Bruinen, mounted upon the Fell Beast. Gandalf shields himself with his Staff, and tells the Witch-King to get himself gone. The Witch-King retorts with more lines from the book. I think that we’re supposed to read between the lines when the Witch-King says, “Do you not know death when you see it, old man?” as we’re to know that wearing a new helm makes you more the man…or undead man…or whatever. Pippin screams, and Shadowfax backs away from the other stead. The Witch-King draws his Morgul blade, and it catches fire and creates a small vacuum, as you can see it pulling Gandalf hair towards itself. The Witch-King screams/screeches, and POW! breaks Gandalf’s staff, throwing the old wizard and Pip to the ground. Gandalf is slow in rising, and as the Fell Beast growls, Pippin, bravely enough, draws his own sword, but the Fell Beast is just too scary for both he and the Last of the Mearas. Exit, stage left. We hear more dire and doom as we see a close up shot of Gandalf prone on the ground. His face ticks a bit, and he, who has already faced death once and returned, now seems to be afraid. The Witch-King makes to strike, but then… Not a rooster but horns are heard in the distance. Both the wizard and Witch-King ponder this sound, and the Witch-King flies off to see what makes the noise. Like back in the Shire when Merry threw a bag to distract the Nazgûl, here too the Black Rider is all too eager to follow any noise and leave its prey. Gothmog must have heard something as well, as he turns from the sack of the city to see. Riders approach on the horizon, and it’s a most welcome sight. Is that the sunrise or sunset that are behind the horse lords? Like in one of Clint Eastwood’s flicks, it’s noted that you should always have an edge. More and more riders appear, and my heart beats faster every time I see this scene. Théoden looks at the besiegers, as do those that follow him. Do they ride to attack, or slink back off and hide while there is still time? To Éowyn and Merry, it’s now no longer all about playing dress up. Éowyn tries to encourage the hobbit, telling him to have courage, “Courage for our friends.” Nice, that. Gothmog, getting way too much time to prepare for the cavalry assault, gets him orcs in line. Théoden gives a few orders then gives a short speech. He rides down the line, hitting spears with his sword. Note that Bernard Hill is left-handed, but he had to hold the sword in his right to make this shot work. Does that make him dour-handed? Death! They shout, and it’s scary, but in a good way. The scene goes right to the heart, after so much misery and suffering, it’s about time things turned our way. And not one Dwarven joke to be seen. The only thing, small that it is, that this scene misses is Théoden’s golden shield. The riders make for the city, and the orcs try to stop them. Riders fall, but the Rohirrim ride on. Now it’s Gothmog’s turn to show some fear. If only he had a son to burn… The riders break the orc lines and deliver death wherever they go. Denethor wants to look his best, now that Théoden has come, and so treats himself to an oil facial (note that it’s light oil – less calories). The Steward asks to be immolated, and his servants obey without much hesitation. “Well, he did bring that hobbit into his service.” Before the pyre is lit, Gandalf shows up to crash the BBQ. Denethor still tries to get the party started, but Gandalf, feeling less now that he was destaffed, takes it out on the nearest authority figure. The old wizard, he who put an encouraging hand on Frodo’s shoulder, hits the Steward with a spear, who goes sailing off of the pyre. Pippin the firewalker tries to help Faramir. Using his ent draught-derived strength, the hobbit roles the Steward’s son off of the pyre, which is just what a depressed, oil soaked, arrow stricken, poisoned, almost victim of filicide needs. Faramir even takes a little fire damage. Denethor gets up and wrestles with Pip, and Gandalf, now feeling more like the warrior that he was, goes after the old man. The Wizard spurs Shadowfax at Denethor. The horse knocks the Steward into the fire. Just before he becomes the human torch, Denethor sees that Faramir has opened his eyes. Great, just great, Denethor thinks. With fever, it’s douse with oil and drop, not ignite. Stupid me. And nice to see that Shadowfax can kill, as that talent might be useful if the horse were used in, say, a battle. The flaming Steward gets off of his pyre and runs for the wall. Before the body is even cold (which, in this case, is going to take a little bit longer than usual), Gandalf announces the Steward’s fate. What’s too ludicrous is that Denethor is able to run the entire length of the Silent Street, then all the way out to that part of the City by the White Tree that sticks out like the front of a ship, then dives down to the attackers. It would be more funny if he landed on an orc just next to Gothmog, who would then make some funny remark. Back on the field, the Rohirrim have the advantage. They begin to rout the orcs. But then, for Sauron, it’s time to start Act 2. You can see Théoden’s jaw drop when he stares out at the approaching oliphaunts, behind which the retreating orcs hide. There might be about 18 of the beasts, but that is way too many. The horns that they use are wonderful, as they are completely different-sounding than those of the Rohirrim. Théoden’s men appear to be dismayed, but the King forms them up to meet this new challenge. Note that I would have dispersed my riders to make for smaller targets, but that’s me. Théoden charges towards the oliphaunts, and the two groups crash as they meet. The oliphaunts, like walking towers, overmatch the smaller Riders on their horses. Our brief glimpse of hope was just a tease, now gone, and we’re back sliding down to despair. It’s like the sun went behind a cloud. Each group circles to continue the attack. Surely I’m not the first to see the ‘Battle on Hoth’ – the Empire Strikes Back Star Wars movie where the small snow speeders fight the large AT-ATs – here. Éomer, finally given a chance to shine, throws a spear into a particularly obnoxious oliphaunt driver, and the driver’s death sets up a collision that takes out two of the beasts. Éowyn takes her attack run at the large walkers, and with Merry at the wheel, she wields two swords and takes out another beast with skillful swordplay. With that, it seems that the tide turns once again. Théoden yells to bring them down, as he and his Riders have gotten over their initial shock and have figured out how to cripple the oliphaunts. Merry and Éowyn are spilled, and so must fight on their own feet now. Théoden gets in trouble, and Éowyn helps as she can. Her uncle takes notice of this young warrior. Merry goes on his own rampage. Finally, it’s boss time and Éowyn meets Gothmog. They duel, and she takes out his leg. Now he’s gimpy for sure - down, but not out. So the battle has turned, but it’s far from over. One enemy surely is left unfought. Where is the Witch-King? *** *** We come full circle. The Witch-King’s Hour scene, not in the theatrical release, is my ‘signature scene.’ Without its inclusion in the Extended Edition of the RotK DVD, most probably I would never have made it to the Barrow Downs. For that, you can either thank or curse Peter Jackson as seems fitting. Anyway, when I first watched RotK EE DVDs, I was excited as, well, the FotR EE version surpassed the theatrical release, and so I awaited what wonders PJ included in this version. I’d already made my peace with the numerous changes from the text, and all of the silliness that PJ thought would enhance the story. But then, there it was, THE SCENE. Gandalf got smacked. To me, it was sheer blasphemy and completely unbelievable, as the EE versions were for persons like me, the Tolkien fanatic. What was PJ et al thinking? That night, after watching the remainder of the DVD, I put them away and did not rewatch RotK for a good few months - I was that annoyed. Surely others thought as I did, but one never knows, and so I searched for answers on the internet. I found them here. Never before did I post or even read an internet forum, yet here I was, joining up just so that I could make myself heard. Incredibly the moniker ‘alatar’ was still available, and so I took that one, though at the time I figured that I would vent about the Gandalf-Witch King scene and leave it at that. Unless the forum were organizing a large pie-throwing attack on PJ’s house, I didn’t see the attraction. But then I got repped, got into a few ‘arguments’ with Essex, who showed me that there was another side of the movies, got hooked, and after that I started moving around the forum a bit and found that I kinda liked it here. And so here I will stay a bit. But anyway, back to the scene at hand. Here are a couple of my posts regarding this scene. Over the years (?) I’ve made my peace with PJ and this scene, but here are my thoughts from back then: Quote:
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There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
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(I'll reply later on the rest - I'm slow on the updates to these scenes these days - sorry) |
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#3 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halls of Mandos
Posts: 332
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The worst moment in the film trilogy, followed by one of the best, followed by one that at the very least could have been better.
It seems redundant to give any more criticism to the you-know-what scene. How about reasons for why it's in there, albeit in the EE? I will say that one thing it does is symbolize the utter defeat of Gondor, the lowest point . . . followed by the glorious horns of the Rohirrim at cock-crow. The charge of the Rohirrim is brilliant, and I think it gets at least nine-tenths of the book's glory. If only Aragorn's appearance could have been anywhere near this good. . . . Bernard Hill has been subtly great throughout, and now he gets center stage and, of course, does awesome. And hey, who's that bearded Rohan guy? Well, I'll be, it's Eomer! Where has he been? In the entire trilogy, he's on screen for about six and a half minutes (no, that's not an actual statistic). Then, it's time for the Pyre of Denethor. John Noble continues to be a master of dementia. I think I can actually defend Gandalf's actions here. He starts out by knocking Denethor off the pyre, temporarily saving his life; then lets Pippin off to grab Faramir. When he does rear Shadowfax and knock Denny back onto the pyre, I think it's because he realizes that the Steward's going to kill himself regardless and could still harm Pippin or Faramir. I can't say I buy that interpretation 100%, but I think it's somewhat plausible. And of course, as mentioned already, having Denny run all that way and off the edge is pretty ridiculous, though a striking visual. Gandalf's accompanying narration seems flat, because we haven't got a chance to know Denethor at all, much less to like him.
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"If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING |
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Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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![]() ![]() Thanks for all of your past and future posts. Something that I forgot to mention, but isn't it interesting that Gothmog didn't see the need to post scouts atop the rise upon which the Rohirrim collect. Did he feel that the Rohirrim wouldn't come (surely Sauron saw the signal fires), or did they come by an unexpected path, like in the books? To me Gothmog was just negligent, but that's what you get when you have major operations conducted by a mere orc chieftain... Elladan and Elrohir, to me there's no way to 'pretty up' the fact that Gandalf sought to kill the Steward. Contrast the Gandalf here with the one in Moria who counseled against slaying Gollum. ![]()
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There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
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#5 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
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#6 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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Quote:
![]() Something else that I've noted: what is the use of Screechers in the air if they cannot see the approach of the Rohirrim?
__________________
There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
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#7 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halls of Mandos
Posts: 332
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__________________
"If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING |
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