Elves visiting Numenor.

[Mithalwen]

We know from the tale of Aldarion and Erendis that the elves of Aman could and did visit Numenor and that the men of Numenor could and did visit Middle Earth.

Now since the Numenoreans surely were originally taght shipbuilding and sailing by Cirdan's people prior to their leaving for their new land so the elves of Middle Earth must have the knowledge amd skill to build and sail ships to Numenor but did they? obviously it was not an insignificant journey but elves have time at their disposal. Now I must cnfess that I have not read every word of HoME and I may be missing something obvious. Were they under a ban?

[Inziladun]

I can't think of anything textual to support this, but maybe the Lindon Elves just had it in their minds to leave the Edain to their own devices in Númenor, at least at first. Then, perhaps when the Númenóreans began voyaging east, and the Eldar in Middle-earth learned they were visited by parties from Eressëa, they thought that level of contact with Elves was sufficient. Maybe they foresaw the eventual issue that arose with the Númenóreans desiring immortality.

[Formendacil]

This could be a case of Tolkien simply not mentioning it (I too, do not recall a single reference anywhere in his published corpus about Elves sailing from Middle-earth to Númenor).

It could also be a case of the Elves forbearing from sailing west so as to avoid the Blessed Realm. Though not exiles in the strictest sense (possibly barring Galadriel and other "chief leaders"--Celebrimbor, perhaps--who might have been under the Ban yet, as suggested in the secondary writings about Galadriel), there is a sense where if they left Middle-earth, they weren't going to come back.

In this respect, it might be a Noldorin analogue to Legolas's reaction to meeting the sea-gulls: before he heard the gulls, he was content in Middle-earth, but never thereafter; before the Noldor started across Belegaer, they were content in Middle-earth, but if they started across they would not return.

There's also a question of whether the Elves would have been entirely welcome in the west (not Númenor, but beyond). The Blessed Realm was no longer forbidden to them after the War of Wrath, so the decision of Galadriel and others to remain in Middle-earth does have a sense of persisting in their "sin," so to speak. Again, to use Galadriel as an example, the decision to go west by the Elves (well, the Noldor--not so much Legolas and his kind) is a sign of repentance, a willingness to fully reconcile with not only the Valar, but with the other Elves still in Valinor--including the re-embodied dead.

With this in mind, it seems somewhat natural to me that the Elves of Middle-earth would avoid going to Númenor. It would not be out of the question that they saw it as part of Valinor's sphere of influence, since it was distinctly analogous to Valinor (as it relates to the Elves), but for Men. And though no longer in dispute with Valinor, the Exiles remaining in Middle-earth do seem to have been 100% willing to put the past behind them.

[Zigûr]

We know that the High Elves who lingered in Middle-earth in the Second Age "wanted the peace and bliss and perfect memory of 'The West', and yet to remain on the ordinary earth where their prestige as the highest people... was greater than at the bottom of the hierarchy of Valinor." (Letter 131) Sauron encouraged the Elves to "make a separate independent paradise" in Middle-earth; "Gilgalad repulsed all such overtures, as also did Elrond" as well as Galadriel, but Celebrimbor was enthused.

Seemingly the leaders of the Elves were uninterested in the active development of Western Middle-earth into a 'paradise' (besides Celebrimbor) but still had an interest in their positions of eminence as well as resisting the ongoing evil in the world. So perhaps it could be suggested that on the one hand defending Middle-earth in the ongoing struggle against Morgoth's legacy was one concern, but there was another. Númenor was a gift of the Valar to Men. It had certain qualities which engendered the reluctance of those High Elves who lingered in Middle-earth, being founded and enriched by those who still lived or had returned to the place they were still unwilling to remove themselves to. It might, then, have had certain connotations which they were trying to avoid.

[Mithalwen]

Thanks for your comments. Some of them chime in with my own speculations - thanks for the ref to the letter Zigur, I can't remember reading that one.

I need to find the text reference but I think Gil-galad solicited the help of the Numenoreans to combat Sauron when he attacked Eregion but the messages may have been sent by Numenorean ships rather than Elvish ones.

Now there may have been a sense of letting well alone and of the prominent elves remaining, Elrond and Gil-galad were Middle Earth born, Galadriel either still under the ban or not desiring to return and Cirdan had his peculiar destiny.

Now regardless of which parentage Gil-galad is given he may have felt he had a special duty or destiny to maintain the struggle against Sauron. Elrond too but he perhaps of all would have the most motivation to visit Numenor? We don't know a lot about his relationship with Elros..maybe a visit would me more painful than a clean break.. in the same way he could have visited Arwen again before he sailed.

Or as has been pointed out it may be that the Elves did not want to impose themselves on the Numenoreans but once they had made contact elf ships were merrily going back and forth and they are just never mentioned.

[Belegorn Calenmir]

It could also be that the Elves were mostly too involved with the War of Sauron and Elves to visit Numenor that much. Tar-Aldarion in fact sailed to Middle-earth to assist Gil-Galad in the struggle, though some Elves visited Numenor during that time.

They called Aldarion's wife Uinen, the Lady of the Sea, to which she was hugely offended, since she felt like the Sea was stealing her husband from her.

So Elves, or at least some, did visit Numenor, though as the years went on, these visits became less and less frequent, especially after Adunakhor became king.

[Mornorngûr]

Putting aside the Elves of Middle-earth for a moment...

I have always felt that the Elves who came to Númenor to visit from Avalonne, were rather selfish in a way. I mean surely they only increased the temptation of the Númenorians by coming there, knowing full well that the reverse could not take place!. It is like sitting in front of a diabetic or obese child, and eating 12 Donuts whilst smiling at him, and then licking your fingers and saying "Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm".

A ban should also have been laid on the Eldar in my opinion.

thoughts?