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#1 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
Posts: 335
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Is Eol technically a Nando?
Judging from these lines: Quote:
It does seem to me that Tolkien's last point about Eol's kinship with Thingol being important raises doubts about the validity of his previous statement that Eol was one of the Teleri that refused to cross the Hithaeglir/Misty Mountains (i.e. the folk who later became known as the Nandor). Nonetheless, I'm not completely convinced that these two ideas are mutually exclusive - since (and I can't remember the exact source) it wasn't unheard of later Elvish immigrants to Beleriand, such as the Nandor and even Avari, becoming (in effect) 'Sindar'. Of course, even if Eol really was a Nando, this fact alone doesn't invalidate any kinship to Thingol per se, since the Nandor are of course a subgroup of Teleri! P.S. Before someone inevitably comments about Eol being a Tatyarin Avar: that idea was scrapped altogether. Anyway, I'd really like some input from people more familiar with the dating/interpretation of the various Eol/Maeglin texts.
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#2 |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,354
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Eol's heritage may turn upon whether he was ultimately considered close kin of Thingol, in which case he is likely Sindarin, or when he entered Beleriand or turned aside from the journey West), in which case he was likely either Nandorin or one of the Avari. There seems to be no clear final conception about Eol's heritage from Tolkien's perspective.
On the one hand, he was nominally beholden to Thingol and Doriath. There is no specific mention of any other Elf living outside of the Girdle that paid a "fee" to Thingol in exchange for land. On the other hand, he was of an exceedingly dark nature, which, by impression only, seems to be like the Avari in personality. However (on the third hand...), if Tolkien's decision was to place him among those who turned away from the journey West upon reaching the Misty Mountains (as per your quote), then he is likely one of the Nandor.
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#3 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
Posts: 335
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Quote:
And as to your second point: I don't necessarily see how Eol's terrible ("dark") personality has anything to do with the characterization of the Avari as a whole - yes, they were classified as 'Dark Elves' (Moriquendi), but so were the Sindar and the Nandor; and the 'Dark' part of their names doesn't refer to any moral 'darkness'.
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#4 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,311
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Eöl is above all sui generis- and not just in his rather unpleasant personality. His affinity for smithcraft and friendship with the Dwarves are highly unusual for any Teler.
Did not Tolkien somewhere or other suggest that some of the Nandor might have been of Noldorin origin?
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#5 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
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Quote:
Heck, even his name (which Tolkien kept 'as is' for over 50 years) and its origins eventually made him just throw up his arms in the air and say 'screw it, sometimes names don't mean anything'. And as to your last point: well, some of the Silvan Elves in Lorien certainly had Noldorin ancestors, but as to the Nandor in the First Age - I swear I also read something about it somewhere, but just can't remember where! ![]()
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#6 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Aha!
It's from the Lhammas and QS '37 (HME V:175, 263): "The Green-elves, who were called in their own tongue Danas, the followers of Dan... this folk was in the beginning of Noldorin race, but is not counted among the Eldar, nor yet among the Lembi. For they followed Orome at first, but...." "There [in Ossiriand] dwelt the Danian Elves, who in the beginning were of Gnomish race, but forsook the march from Kuivienen, and came never to Valinor."
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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