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08-15-2004, 05:13 PM | #1 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 10 - Strider
From one of Tolkien’s letters, we know that he admitted to not knowing who Strider was when he first appeared at the ‘Prancing Pony’. From the early drafts in HoME, we know that he was originally Trotter, the Ranger hobbit. When Tolkien introduced him in the last chapter, he left his readers uncertain of his character and true nature. In this chapter, we get to know him better, both directly through the hobbits’ encounter and talk with him, and indirectly through Gandalf’s letter. The end of the chapter sees them falling asleep, protected, yet how close they are to danger is foreshadowed by Merry’s close escape.
How does this chapter affect you? How important do you think it is for the continuation of the story? Do you like the character that is developed here?
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' Last edited by Estelyn Telcontar; 08-25-2004 at 02:36 PM. |
08-24-2004, 07:46 PM | #2 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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Favorite part in Chapter
My favorite part in this Chapter would have to be when Aragorn pulls out the shards of Narsil.
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08-24-2004, 08:18 PM | #3 | |
Maniacal Mage
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Ah yes! I like this chapter particularly, as it contains Gandalf's troubling letter
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'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.' |
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08-25-2004, 06:31 AM | #4 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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All That is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king. I like this poem very much It sort of inspires me.
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If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with the bull - The Phantom. |
08-25-2004, 07:29 AM | #5 |
Gibbering Gibbet
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Beyond cloud nine
Posts: 1,844
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The poem is indeed one of Tolkien's best -- second only, I think, to the Ring verse. Like the Ring verse, it gives us all kinds of interesting information about Aragorn. In particular, it gives us an interesting look at the manner in which Aragorn and Sauron are related/interconnected to one another.
"All that is gold does not glitter" This has to be a counterpart, even a counterpoint, to the Ring: also made of gold, and also something that lacks "glitter" in a couple of sensese. I never once remember the Ring as "glittering" which would seem for Tolkien to be a positive idea (the glittering caves of Aglarond). So Aragorn and Sauron are alike in some ways -- both are identified with and by gold, and neither one of them appears to be what he really is. Both are hidden in some way: of course, Sauron is deceptive while Aragorn is cloaked in the protective guise of Strider (interesting that the title of the chapter is this name), but there is this similarity. There is a dissonance between their true nature and their appearance to others. Of course, the big difference here is that this dissonance is reversed: Sauron, as Frodo points out, seeks to look fair despite being foul (Macbeth allusion #1 in the book). "Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost." These lines could just as easily be applied to Sauron! After each defeat he is said to "wander" Middle Earth, but he always finds his way back to Mordor where he grows in strength once more. Like the line of the Dunedain, Sauron cannot be wholly quenched or destroyed, only reduced in power for a time. "From the ashes a fire shall be woken" The fires of Mount Doom burning once more? The rekindling of Mount Doom in the land of ashes? I do realise that this line is not alluding to Sauron, but it makes yet another connection between Aragorn and Sauron, this time through the imagery of fire and ash. Again, there's a reversal -- in Mordor, the result of fire is dead and sterile ash; Aragorn, on the other hand, will bring a new fire that will renew the ash. So alike, even interconnected, but opposite. "A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king." I think this is where the conjoined/counterpart/counterpoint relationship of Aragorn and Sauron is most clearly laid out. Aragorn is the light and Sauron is the shadow: but of course, light and shadow are interdependent. In the Christian take on this imagery (and I anticipate davem here ) shadows are dependent upon light, since the former cannot exist without the latter. It's interesting though that in this verse, the light springs from within a pre-existing shadow (like the fire from the ash). It's almost as though the shadows do have some form of independent existence and that the light is going to have to combat them. . . The verse ends with the two items that link Aragorn and Sauron together: the sword and the crown. The sword was broken in the past when Isildur destroyed Sauron and took the Ring, and the crown that is properly Aragorn’s but that Sauron is trying to take for himself. What I find so compelling about all this is that while it shows on the one hand how Sauron is the shadow of Aragorn, it does so by consistently linking them to each other. Sauron is the ‘negative’ or evil part(ner) of the pair, but they are presented as conjoined, linked to one another by and through the crown (the future), the sword (the past), and even the Ring (the present? Insofar as their conflict is being brought to a head in the War of the Ring?). The idea of Sauron as Aragorn’s shadow, and the closeness of the relationship as it’s developed by the verse, has a couple of important implications. First, Sauron needs Aragorn, for without the light of Numenor, there can be no shadow of Mordor. Second, though, there cannot be a light that does not cast some shadows (except, perhaps, the light of Eru?) – so even if Aragorn is able to defeat Sauron, there will always be more shadowy figures cast by his light?? One very last point on the form of this verse, as compared to the Ring Verse: the Ring verse is written in iambs (with the syllables repeating in an unstressed-stressed pattern, like in Shakespeare: “to BE or NOT to BE”; “one RING to RULE them ALL”), whereas Aragorn’s verse is written primarily in anapests (with two unstressed syllables followed by a stressed syllable: “the CROWN-less a-GAIN shall be KING”). Why do I make this point? *Fordim dons professorly robes and lectures the rapt audience over the rim of his glasses* Iambic verse is the more usual in poetry as it more clearly mimics the natural cadence of spoken English; it is the least poetic sounding form of poetry. Anapestic verse is the precise opposite; it is the most poetic sounding. This is fascinating to me – Sauron’s verse is one that hides its artifice in a way; it sounds like simple prose, when really it’s poetry. Aragorn’s verse, on the other hand (written, I realise, by Bilbo) is openly artificial and poetic. This really brings the relation of these two characters into focus, I think: both are connected to the same things, and to each other through these things, but one strives to hide behind art (that is, Sauron attempts to look artless?) while Aragorn is more clear and open about his true nature (that is, he is willing to show his poetic nature?).
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08-25-2004, 09:10 AM | #6 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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This chapter reminds me of chapter 5 in a way - like that chapter, it consists primarily of conversation, and its function is largely to sort things out and tell us who is going to do what. The big question that the chapter deals with is, of course, "who is Strider?" But also discussed are Butterbur's character, the movements of the Black Riders, and what the Hobbits are to do next.
In a way, the chapter is a temporary decrease in tension. Despite Sam's suspicion, it is not all that hard for the reader to guess at the outset that Strider will turn out to be a friend; the suspense surrounding his character in chapter 9 dissipates fairly quickly. The chapter then is not so much about playing with the reader's opinion of Strider as it is about the logic of the Hobbits' acceptance of him. And this logic is handled rather neatly with Gandalf's letter. The suspense is then re-ignited with Merry's entrance and news of the Black Riders. So we have a whole chapter more or less devoted to establishing Aragorn as a character. I think this is interesting, as Aragorn is, I have always felt, one of the flatter characters in the book. I don't mean that in a pejorative way. He is a flat character in the tradition of great flat characters like Aeneas and Beowulf. It's not that he is poorly characterized, just that he does not have the same sort of psychological hook as Turin or Gollum or even Frodo. So why a whole chapter devoted to characterizing him? Well, part of it is that because he is a flat character, one chapter is sufficient. Aragorn's character is almost completely laid out very quickly here (even if his real identity is not yet clear to the Hobbits), whereas, for example, Frodo's is not fully explored until the end of the book. Strider's character is even boiled down rather nicely to a single phrase. Frodo says that a servant of the enemy would "look fair and feel foul"; Strider really does "look foul and feel fair". He looks foul in the sense that he looks the way we would expect an enemy to look - he sits mysteriously in the corner of the common room; he even scrambles over the gate as a "dark figure" and melts "into the shadows below". But as soon as he begins speaking, his true nature becomes evident. The way he speaks is simply not the way enemies speak in Tolkien's universe. |
08-26-2004, 07:21 AM | #7 | |
Stormdancer of Doom
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"Half a league, half a league, half a league onward" ... "Honor the charge they made, noble six hundred!"
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...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. |
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08-25-2004, 10:55 AM | #8 | |
Stormdancer of Doom
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Gandalf, the Ring, and Frodo
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Look at the date of the letter-- Midyear's day, which is the summer solstice, June 18-ish (THANK YOU! that goes into Equinii and solsticsess) and compare it to Frodo's departure from Bag End in late September. Frodo had *not* used the Ring by the writing of this letter-- Frodo's first use of the Ring was in Tom Bombadil's house. I don't know why Tolkien (via Gandalf) wrote 'again'. I suppose one could hedge that Gandalf was warning Frodo 'again', but the sentence structure & punctuation isn't convincing, is it?
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...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. |
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08-25-2004, 01:38 PM | #9 | ||||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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I have to say I do like the way Strider 'plays' the hobbits - both sides are testing the other - Strider points out that he has almost been trapped by the enemy's tricks before, & we have to understand that he is also on his guard - if they are spies of the enemy then they could bring about his downfall & the end of the Northern line. We can only admire the risk he is willing to take, & the struggle he has to bring himself to trust them. There are a lot of undercurrents to this chapter, & Aragorn is taking the hobbits just as much on trust as they are taking him. When he tells them that: Quote:
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Aiwendil is correct: Quote:
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08-25-2004, 01:53 PM | #10 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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I like Fordim's post about the "All that is gold does not glitter" verse. I do agree that the first line could equally apply to The Ring. It is in fact a line which seems to apply to many aspects of Middle Earth (and, indeed, to life itself). Sam is a hero wrapped in the guise of a humble hobbit, and Faramir is another who is good, yet at first glance seems rough. Then we have Saruman, in his lofty, noble tower, yet he is not good at all. But I have always thought that the first six lines of this verse could equally be made to apply to Gandalf.
All That is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Gandalf is himself a roughly dressed figure with the appearance of an old man. Yet age does not affect him, and he is stronger than anyone might expect - his 'deep roots'. The fire and the light come from the power inherent in his ring of power, and I often think these lines could also apply to his 'resurrection' after the balrog takes him into the abyss. *** This chapter has stayed with me since my very first reading, particularly when Aragorn reveals his stature after Sam's challenge. This was a very striking and vivid image to me, he became the very picture of a commanding hero, a military leader and king. It also reminds me of portraits of historical figures like Nelson. The protagonists in the book see Aragorn every day in his guise as a ranger - and at moments such as this it is as though he has revealed his 'public' or noble persona. Quote:
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08-25-2004, 07:13 PM | #11 |
Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,547
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As many people have said, Aragorn's poem is one of my favorite bits of the chapter, and of the book. (Nice post on this, Fordim!) It was in fact the first piece that I ever memorized. This chapter and the two following ones are also among my very favorite chapters, perhaps my single favorite sequence of events in the book.
Though I do enjoy Gandalf's letter, I have often wondered how it would have fallen out if there had been no letter. Based on Frodo's comments, I think they would have ended up taking Aragorn with them anyway, but it still intrigues me. Something interesting that struck me was the line "After Weathertop our journey will become more difficult, and we will have to choose between various dangers." Ever since the discussion in the Chapter 2 thread I have been particularly sensitive to lines and phrases that might be foreshadowing, and this is one of those that stood out. If only they knew how much more difficult it would be. Also interesting how Strider's image changes throughout the chapter. At the start, he is Strider, a rascally-looking character who at the start seems to want more than Frodo wants to give. Even the name "Strider" is rather vegabond-ish, though eventually it becomes an affectionate (maybe that isn't the right word) name among the hobbits. As the chapter goes on, we see that Strider knows more than is perhaps safe, compounded by the fact that neither Barliman nor Sam seem to trust him at all. Then there is Gandalf's letter, and like the hobbits we can be relieved that this Strider really is on their side. He has an actual name now, Aragorn, and he basically swears to help Frodo in whatever way he can, whether living or dying. (Another favorite line: "But I am the real Strider, fortunately," he said, looking down at them with his face softened by a sudden smile. "I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and if by life or death I can save you, I will.") |
08-05-2018, 07:00 AM | #12 |
Dead Serious
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Nothing leapt out at me specifically with "I must write about that on the Downs" reading through this chapter, and rereading the thread has not prompted anything distinct either (though this is one of the best CbC threads I've reread yet, so let us blame that one holding an only partially asleep infant while reading it).
Nonetheless, I want to say *something*, because I share the sentiment of a number of posters over the years in this thread who love this chapter. The comparison is made above that "Strider" is rather like "A Conspiracy Unmasked" in that it is largely a chapter of dialogue in a place of pause. That happens to be one of my favourite things--I have just enough of an actor left in me from middle school to enjoy reading the dialogue aloud from favourite authors, and Aragorn is a favourite--Gandalf too, and though he does not appear here, his voice does in the form of that letter. One of the joys of re-reading a favourite text is reencountering beloved characters, and having Aragorn join the story has more of a sense of "finally!" than anyone else. With Strider in the picture, the main cast seems complete, because even if he isn't the main character, I'd argue that he is a main character--even if his much of his purpose is to provide contrast to the doings of the Hobbits, and to show that even in the Kingly and Heroic the greatest virtues are those shared with the humble and Hobbit-like, it is still the case that to show this, he must be a prominent character. And his is--in The Two Towers and The Return of the King, when the action separates the Hobbits and we have none to follow, Aragorn becomes our de facto protagonist, even if he remains a secondary character in terms of the epic as a whole. As to whether Strider is a flat character, I think we need to define our terms. If by flat, we mean that Strider is not a complex character, I suppose I can imagine how that might be perceived, but I would disagree with it completely; however, if we mean that Strider is a static character--i.e. someone who does not substantially change within the course of the narrative--then I quite agree: Strider's character is determined by the eight-plus decades before we meet him at the Prancing Pony. The part that we get to see up close is the endgame, where who he is and what he will do has already been decided--we're just seeing how those decisions are going to play out. Which is why, to engage with a potential plothole already interacted with in the thread, it makes sense to me that Aragorn would have the Shards of Narsil on him. Even if Gandalf has told him nothing of the Ring (though, in fact, he has apparently told him a great deal, since he's already cautioning Frodo on it in the previous chapter) Aragorn can read the same signs of the times that even Frodois hearing about before Gandalf's return in "Shadow of the Past," and can presumably interpret them better than most. He knows war with Mordor is imminent. So while he obviously wasn't carrying around the Shards while he was undercover as Thorongil, it does make sense to me that he'd have them, knowing they were entering the Last Days. On a different note--it occurs to me that Strider is one of a very select few to have a chapter named after him. Tom Bombadil, Elrond, and Galadriel all get mentioned in a chapter title, though the subject is some of theirs (a house, council, and mirror respectively)--likewise, in the later books: Boromir, Saruman, Sméagol, Shelob, Samwise, and Denethor. Only Treebeard gets a chapter titled specifically identified as about him by name, though Gandalf and Théoden in the following two chapters each get a title that refers to them directly ("The White Rider" and "The King of the Golden Hall")--and if we go by that criteria, the only two-person chapter title is "The Steward and the King," which bookends "Strider." Strider is introduced in "At the Sign of the Prancing Pony" and he last appears in "Many Partings," but "Strider" is where we learn his identity and "The Steward and the King" is where that identity comes to fulfillment.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
Last edited by Formendacil; 08-05-2018 at 07:01 AM. Reason: Fix spelling |
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