Tolkien Villains - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Urwen · 03-16-2020, 03:40 PM

I have thought about this for a while, and some of Tolkien's villains are far more interesting than heroes.

Take Feanor, who made the Silmarils, that Silmarilion is named after. Or Morgoth, who used them as his symbol of power. After killing their maker's dad of course.

Then there is Sauron, who is the title character in the book, and I have a headcanon about him, which hinges on 'even evil has loved ones' and this is real reason he wanted Pharazon dead. Why, he had two loved ones there, whoah.

Then there is Targlin. Oh, I have quite a bit to say about Targlin, but if I do, it would turn into an essay, so I'll just say this: Uma semente escura do mal foi semeada.

And finally, there is Turin, whose actions weren't evil per se, but still did a lot of damage.

Galadriel55 · 03-16-2020, 09:36 PM

Interesting antagonists make interesting stories even better than interesting protagonists do.

But part of it is that many of these people are not villains, in neither the moral nor literal sense. There are tragic heroes and antiheroes, and not heroes at all but not really villains, or antagonists but not outright villains either... I am very surprised that you of all people would call Turin and Feanor villains.

Urwen · 03-17-2020, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Interesting antagonists make interesting stories even better than interesting protagonists do.

But part of it is that many of these people are not villains, in neither the moral nor literal sense. There are tragic heroes and antiheroes, and not heroes at all but not really villains, or antagonists but not outright villains either... I am very surprised that you of all people would call Turin and Feanor villains.

I think you should be more surprised that I would call Targlin a villain.

Galadriel55 · 03-17-2020, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwen

I think you should be more surprised that I would call Targlin a villain.

I have no idea who Targlin is. *shrug*

***Mithadan*** · 03-17-2020, 10:53 AM

OK, I'll bite. Targlin was an early and rejected name for Maeglin and an early name for galvorn, the metal that Eol's sword was made from. That's all I can find. Is there another Targlin?

*First time that I ever used the HoME index.

William Cloud Hicklin · 03-20-2020, 02:30 PM

Tolkien had a passing notion to give the Dark Elf some very un-elflike traits including constant sore throats, and name him Garglin, but rejected the idea.

03-16-2020, 03:40 PM	#1
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,386	Tolkien Villains I have thought about this for a while, and some of Tolkien's villains are far more interesting than heroes. Take Feanor, who made the Silmarils, that Silmarilion is named after. Or Morgoth, who used them as his symbol of power. After killing their maker's dad of course. Then there is Sauron, who is the title character in the book, and I have a headcanon about him, which hinges on 'even evil has loved ones' and this is real reason he wanted Pharazon dead. Why, he had two loved ones there, whoah. Then there is Targlin. Oh, I have quite a bit to say about Targlin, but if I do, it would turn into an essay, so I'll just say this: Uma semente escura do mal foi semeada. And finally, there is Turin, whose actions weren't evil per se, but still did a lot of damage. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

03-16-2020, 09:36 PM	#2
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,381	Interesting antagonists make interesting stories even better than interesting protagonists do. But part of it is that many of these people are not villains, in neither the moral nor literal sense. There are tragic heroes and antiheroes, and not heroes at all but not really villains, or antagonists but not outright villains either... I am very surprised that you of all people would call Turin and Feanor villains. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

03-17-2020, 10:53 AM	#5
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,374	OK, I'll bite. Targlin was an early and rejected name for Maeglin and an early name for galvorn, the metal that Eol's sword was made from. That's all I can find. Is there another Targlin? *First time that I ever used the HoME index. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

03-20-2020, 02:30 PM	#6
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,319	Tolkien had a passing notion to give the Dark Elf some very un-elflike traits including constant sore throats, and name him Garglin, but rejected the idea. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.