Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
03-14-2008, 01:09 AM | #1 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
|
Lord of the Rings musical closing this July
If we can believe the Daily Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1794
I haven't seen it, & probably won't now, but I have the cast recording & have to say its some of my favourite Tolkien inspired music. Maybe they'll try & recoup some of their losses by putting out a dvd of the show...... |
03-14-2008, 06:04 AM | #2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
|
I am not surprised in the least. I saw the production in Toronto and thought it was a disaster trying to put a 1200 page novel in a three hour play. Or, if you prefer, an eleven hour film digested to a three hour play. At its best moments it was mediocre. It advertised itself as a musical and the music was totally forgettable unless it was bad then you tried to forget it. There was that one musical number in Bree which was clearly inspired by Master of the House from LES MIZ. However, it was a pale imitation and the costumes in that portion of the play looked like a combination of DELIVERANCE and DAVY CROCKETT. I could almost hear the banjo picking in the background. When they were not doing number like that we got the Cirque Soliel wailing that passes for singing.
Everyones lines were rushed to get it all in so badly that it seemed like an old 33 rpm record album being played at 45 speed. Nobody under 35 will understand that reference. This play had to be a huge investment to stage given its complexity and cast size. In the end, it was simply a bad idea. |
03-14-2008, 06:20 AM | #3 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
|
More here http://www.whatsonstage.com/index.ph...Date%2C+19+Jul
I think we'll have to agree to disagree about the music - I'm listening to the cast recording now & I (like all the reviewers on Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lord-Rings-O...5496825&sr=8-2 ) think its fantastic - though I admit it I didn't 'get' it first time I listened. I've probably listened to it a good couple of dozen times & its one of my favourite albums of all time. Still, its not the end of the show altogether - a scaled down touring version is heading for Germany & New Zealand. Perhaps if they'd gone for a scaled down version initially they wouldn't hjave struggled so hard to recoup their costs..... For anyone who doesn't know the show - their website has footage. I can't speak from experience, but it looks more interesting than the movies... http://www.lotr.com/
__________________
“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 03-14-2008 at 06:26 AM. |
03-14-2008, 07:34 AM | #4 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
|
davem ... I did check out the Amazon site and reviews. Of course, the reviews are from people who purchased the CD because they had heard it and liked it a great deal... enough so to shell out good money for it. That is hardly an impartial or objective review. Those are reviews of the true believers in the concept.
I find this comment by you insightful Quote:
|
|
03-14-2008, 08:25 AM | #5 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,996
|
Sauron the White, you say you saw--heard--the production in Toronto. But my understanding is that the music underwent considerable changes for the London show and I believe davem is talking about the London cast recording? I could be wrong, though.
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
03-14-2008, 09:16 AM | #6 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
|
It is my understanding that the changes in the two venues were mainly in tightening up the play so that it ran a bit shorter through the elimination of a character or two and a scene or two. This may have caused the shortening of a song or two - I do not know for sure. However, it is my understanding that the music is basically the same for both shows.
I would welcome the knowledge of anyone who actually saw both shows. However, regardless of that, my point is that the music failed in its main goal of supporting the play and adding to it. Davem said that he "did'nt get it" on first listen. A first listen is what the vast majority of playgoers have. If they also "don't get it" then the music has badly failed as part of the play. Everybody has a total right to like what ever they decide to like and there is no right or wrong applied to that. My comments are simply geared to evaluate the success of the play and its music. |
03-15-2008, 09:16 AM | #7 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,996
|
Quote:
Interesting comment here, StW. Which was the musical based on--Tolkien's books or Jackson's movies? I cannot recall reading anything which suggested the musical was attempting to put the movie on stage. It was to be an adaptation of Tolkien's LotR. Are there aspects of the musical which clearly suggest the movies, such as horse snogging, shield boarding, dwarven jokes not from the books, a mighty-morphin' Witch King? Or is it purely an adaptation of the books for the stage? Perhaps those who have seen the production can comment on this?
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bęthberry; 03-15-2008 at 09:22 AM. |
|
03-15-2008, 10:03 AM | #8 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
No there was definitely no horse snogging or skateboarding but there were orcs on pogo-stick like crutches - does that count? It gave their movements an appropriately fierce energy but combined with the fact that the elves seemed to be signing makaton to the mortals it did seem to suggest that Middle Earth was populated largely by those with special needs... but that is one of my few quibbles about the production. There was a lot from the books that never madee it to the films - the Ranger's protection of the shire being a good example.
I do hope that Dave might make it down to see it. Treebeard was played as a tree shepherd ...and was very Yorkshire .... no prizes for guessing who he reminded me of
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
03-15-2008, 10:26 AM | #9 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
|
I'd like to go - from the clips I've seen on the show's site it all looks very impressive. However, I probably won't get the chance, given timescales & the fact that fans of the show will be snapping up the last few tickets.
|
03-15-2008, 10:43 AM | #10 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
|
from Bethberry
Quote:
Mithalwen brought up the orcs on what she called pogosticks- actually they were some space age sort of crutches. I don't remember them as having any bouncing properties to them. They looked absurd and silly as everyone chased each opther around in sort of a Keystone Cops fashion while they dodged rising and falling elevators and hydraulic platforms. And then we had Saruman in a floor length leather coat looking like the twin brother of Otto Preminger in STALAG 17. That was a wonderful casting and costuming idea In Toronto, Bormir was Black, Aragorn had charcoal marks under his eyes like American football players and the whole thing was like watching a movie using the fast forward control. Last edited by Sauron the White; 03-15-2008 at 11:11 AM. |
|
03-15-2008, 10:43 AM | #11 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
Quote:
I must book since a daytrip and a matinee is my best chance ... hope they make a DVD or something but you won't get the full effect
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
|
03-15-2008, 11:08 AM | #12 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
|
Quote:
Wow, for once - I agree.
__________________
"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
|
03-15-2008, 11:21 AM | #13 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
|
I find it interesting to see that the strongest criticism of the musical comes from a movie admirer who does not tire to remind us that a movie must needs be different than the book - to me, the limits of a stage production are even more obvious, and I am willing to give the producers the necessary leeway.
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
03-15-2008, 11:33 AM | #14 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
|
Perhaps the saddest thing about the failure of the musical is that Jackson's take will now be the only one which sticks in the public's mind (for those who haven't read the books). Those who don't know the books will think of LotR as just an 'action adventure' story The more different takes on the story the better - one reason why I take every advantage to play up the radio series. Jackson's LotR is not Tolkien's LotR, but too many people who don't know the books think it is. I wish this show had been more popular http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/346386
& btw I thought the facial make up on the Elves looked quite cool.. |
03-15-2008, 12:04 PM | #15 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
|
from Estelyn ...
Quote:
Lets me fair here. if you are going to criticize something I said please keep in mind that I have not compared the musical play to the movie and evaluated it using that scale of comparison. I criticized the musical play on its own merits and compared nothing in it to anything in the films. I mentioned the length of the books and the films to show that the length of a 3 hour play based on such material was going to have its serious drawbacks. I never said "I hate the play because its not the movie or the book". That is the basis of my repeated criticism of many here who love to compare apples to cinderblocks and then expect the Nobel Prize for announcing that "yes indeedy folks, apples are tastier and cinder blocks are harder". And yes, I am a "movie admirer". But three decades before that happened, I was a "book admirer" and still am. Last edited by Sauron the White; 03-15-2008 at 12:32 PM. |
|
03-15-2008, 02:02 PM | #16 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
|
Quote:
The question here is whether, despite the cuts & changes made, the spirit of the book came across. I don't know. I liked the music, & some of it I think is beautiful, but I'd have to see the show to know whether it captures the spirit of the book. The point is, I don't rule out the possibility that it could capture & communicate the spirit of Tolkien's story simply because it is only three hours (or whatever) long. |
|
03-15-2008, 02:10 PM | #17 |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
|
I was going to start a thread on this myself. I saw the show, and liked some parts, but was disappointed by a lot. They just cut out so much! But its not their fault. And I'll not even mention the Balrog. Shelob was quite good, and yes, the orcs did do back-flips on futuristic pogo-sticks. I had a mixed opinion.
And I can't get the "Lothlorien" every five seconds out of my head. But as far as adaptions go, it wasn't as bad as some I've seen. You try to do better with the same actors/resources.
__________________
Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place
Last edited by Eönwë; 05-05-2008 at 03:14 AM. Reason: I forgot the emphassis and only now realised |
03-15-2008, 02:45 PM | #18 | ||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,996
|
Quote:
Quote:
So the question is that the LotR adaptation should have followed a similar path, been a "two parter" theatre experience? I don't think the drawbacks of the production were necessarily related to the length of the book and the length of time an audience will sit still on its collective duff. At least for the Toronto production, much was made in the PR about the stage mechanics--the number of stage elevators, the massive size of the set, the stilts, the extension of the forest into the main floor orchestra pit. I seem to recall news items about how the historical Drury Lane theatre also had to be reconditioned from its authentic features and adapted for the mechanical theatrics. It seems to me that theatre has also sufferred a glut of special effects frenzy similar to what computer animation has done to film: how to do something bigger, better, more dramatic than the helicopter landing for Miss Saigon? I had the feeling that LotR was chosen not only because it is much beloved and had the potential to be a blockbuster, but because it was "big enough" to provide opportunity to use all the gadgets and gizmos and razzmatazz. If you build it, you must use it . . . And it was this theatricality which took up so much time, a theatricality which in fact became something akin to Tolkien's hatred of "machinery."--it was used for its own purpose and not necessarily to further the story. jmho!
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
||
03-16-2008, 04:44 PM | #19 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
|
Here in Finland we're promised to have a choice of a CD with the music only and then a DVD with some stills and videos from the production... nothing more than that.
__________________
Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
03-16-2008, 04:50 PM | #20 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
|
Quote:
__________________
“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 03-16-2008 at 04:54 PM. |
|
03-16-2008, 10:53 PM | #21 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
|
Wow....I looked at those clips on YouTube, and I must say...what in the world were they thinking? What were they attempting? Did you SEE those actors? Those costumes? WOW. I am very glad I did not see this mockery.
The one and only thing that sounded cool was one of the musical scores. That's it.
__________________
"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
03-20-2008, 02:51 PM | #22 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
It should be borne in mind...
that while many of the critics admitted they hated Tolkien and so were prejudiced from the start, and clearly some are prejudiced for other reasons, I know I am not alone in having enjoyed the Lodon production and I am sorry it is closing. However I think it is too simplistic to say it could never work...
It is not a great time for the West End http://arts.guardian.co.uk/theatre/d...139843,00.html The strength of the pound and the fact that tourism has never really recovered from the aftermath of the atrocities of 11th September 2001 mean that the theatres are getting very cautious. It says a lot that the Rings is going to be replaced by a production of "Oliver!" with the eponymous hero and Nancy being played by the winners of the latest BBC "audition by television" show, a follow up to the highly successful contests for a new Maria (Sound of Music) and Joseph (and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat). Dont' get me wrong, I enjoyed both the shows (and my favourites won through .. .) but it is a worrying sign for the longterm health of the industry if the only things that can get put on are tried and tested pot-boilers starring people who have had huge tv exposure.
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
05-04-2008, 05:12 PM | #23 |
Reflection of Darkness
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull.
Posts: 2,983
|
I saw the musical on Friday and enjoyed it very much.
I thought the first half was depicted very well. All the best scenes were left in, and the parts that were changed had good reasons for change (after all you're cutting down a trilogy to three hours). The hobbits were well done (loved Pippin) and I was particularly pleased watching the number "The Cat and the Moon" as I really love that song in the book. The second half was alright too. I found the death of Boromir touching and the ending was well done. The only thing that really bothered me was how they seemed to combine Rohan and Gondor and merge Theoden, Denethor, and Eomer into one character. I understand that stuff needs to be cut down, but that really just confused and frustrated me more than anything. I think it would've been better off if Gandalf came to Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli in Fangorn (like he's supposed to), and then have them ride off to save Rohan (and Gondor), but leave it there and not show any of it (until they arrive at the gate). That or extend the musical another 45 minutes. But I think it's better to cut out an entire part of the books then to include some and butcher it up. That's really my only major criticism. Though less importantly, the hand movements of the elves bothered me after awhile. It was overdone and exaggerated...like a really bad interpretive dance. But I think what made the musical so fantastic were the special effects. The balrog was a great way to close the first act with smoke coming everywhere. The Black Riders were absolutely stunning. And Shelob was superb...she really managed to freak out the audience (as did the orcs who wandered into the aisles). And really, the list could go on... The music was wonderful too. There were no songs that stood out to me above the rest in ways that songs in some musicals do, but still it was all very beautiful. I'll have to get the soundtrack if I can find it cheap somewhere... Anyways, when I first heard LotR would be a musical, I admit I thought it a bit ridiculous. But after it came out I became more curious and when I found out I was going to London I decided I really wanted to see it. I still wasn't sure about how good it would be...I thought some of the clips on the website depicted the musical as a bit cheesy and overdone, but of course I had to see it for myself and I'm glad I did. Really, pictures and videos don't do the musical justice...things may look overdone but that's how all musicals are because they have to be seen from a distance (while usually they are filmed up close). It was only a few days ago I saw the first ads about the musical closing (though I was aware of it before), and I'm sad to see it go. Take my advice: anyone and everyone who has the opportunity to see LotR before July 19 should go and see it. Despite the changes, it'll be worth your money...trust me.
__________________
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum |
|
|