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#1 | |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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This is the first draft of the chapter The End of the Third Age.
This chapter is a thoroughly mixed bag of sources, and so there is no base text. Because of this, I have marked every instance of any text used, so as to be easy to follow. The markings are: FY-HL-xx for all the headlines for the Fading Years. ETA-SL-xx for all expansions and changes to the narrative. Some conventions of my writing: Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks {example} = text that should be deleted [example] = normalized text, normally only used for general changes, as well as changes which are a part of replacement that is not grammatical. Underlined Text = text changed for grammatical reasons in the process of combining and inserting and removing. <source example> = additions with source information ...... = This section of the paragraph is unchanged from the source. Quote:
ETA-SL-01: Here we finally give the story of Gandalf's arrival at the Havens as told in retrospect, which I think we should keep in this location, since this is when Tolkien intended to give it. I have taken it from Of the Rings of Power. ETA-SL-02: This sentence from the version of the event given in Appendix B is not found in the ORP version, so I brought it in. ETA-SL-03: This sentence from the version of the event given in The Istari from UT is not found in the ORP version, so I brought it in. ETA-SL-04: We turn to the Waldman Letter in order to close out the story of Frodo and Bilbo. I did not include the last scene of Sam returning home since I thought it was too personal for the overarching narrative, but I suppose it could be included if that is deemed better. ETA-SL-05: I removed the comments of Tolkien. ETA-SL-06: This detail is worth bringing in, so that we keep the symmetry with the ORP version. ETA-SL-07: Here we give the last portion of Of the Rings of Power, and conclude the narrative of the Eldar in Middle-earth: a bittersweet moment to be sure! ETA-SL-08: Here we return to the story of Men, with the addition from the Kings of Rohan about Theoden, which was removed from the chapter which was then called The Stewards but is now called The Quest for Erebor. I think it works well here. ETA-SL-09: Here I switch to the text in the Tale of Years draft from HoME 12. This is a shorter account than that of Appendix A, but it contains some relevant details. ETA-SL-19: Here we insert the bit from Eomer's entry in the Kings of Rohan dealing with ascendance to Kingship and Eowyn's prowess. ETA-SL-11: This was the date in the earlier draft, but in the final version it was changed slightly, so I updated it. This detail is not given explicitly in the text of Appendix A, so I thought it was worth including. ETA-SL-12: Here we switch back to Appendix A. It describes the reign of Eomer in Rohan, and then transitions back to the Tale of Years text briefly as a segue into the Aragorn and Arwen narrative. ETA-SL-13: This detail needs to be given before the end of the next few, since it references Aragorn making 'The Mayor, the Thain, and the Master' into counsellors of the North Kingdom. By that point we are supposed to know that The Mayor is Sam, so we need to give it before that point. Here seems as good a place as any. ETA-SL-14: This detail is also needed before the next additon, which references this decree. ETA-SL-15: Here we give the last bit from the North Kingdom narrative in Appendix A, which deals with Aragorn's reign. I changed the tense to past tense, since right after this we recount the death of Aragorn, so he cannot be referenced in the present tense. ETA-SL-16: This detail from Appendix B is worth giving. ETA-SL-17: This piece of info from Appendix B is also worth giving for its own sake. ETA-SL-18: Here we relate the passing of Sam over the sea, as well as the transmission of the Red Book, taken from Appendix B and edited for proper tenses. ETA-SL-19: Here we relate the deaths of Merry and Pippin and Eomer, and set the stage for Aragorn's death. ETA-SL-20: Here we give the last portion of The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. (Sidenote: this scene is one of my favorite moments in the legendarium; it's so sad!) ETA-SL-21: I thought this detail worth giving, but I did not want to give it before Aragorn's death was related. This placing feels somewhat awkward, but I could find no better spot. ETA-SL-22: This portion of the Tale of Years draft contains info not given elsewhere, briefly mentioning the reign of Eldarion, and setting the stage for The New Shadow (which will follow this chapter). ETA-SL-23: Here we return to the text of Appendix A briefly as the best means of transitioning from the Aragorn info to this new info about Legolas and Gimli. ETA-SL-24: The account in Appendix B is much fuller and more detailed, so I used that one. ETA-SL-25: This note from Durin's Folk belongs here, as the last chronological event, as well as 'one of the last notes in the Red Book.' With that, we come to an end of our single, unified tale of the History of Middle Earth, except for the fragment of The New Shadow which follows this. |
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#2 | |||||
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,715
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FY-HL-22: I am not happy with this title as the text contains much that actually happen in the Fourth Age.
ETA-SL-08 & ETA-SL-10: These addition do not realy fit here. I would integrat them in the chatper The War of the Ring. See the appropriate thread for information of where and how I would place them. And I would add a part about the extantion of Rohan. The text here would than read: Quote:
ETA-SL-14.1 to ETA-SL-14.9: I think we should add version 2 of the Epilogue to the LotR. Tolkien was talked out of using it, but he never rejected its content. Therefore I think it fits very well the goal of the project to include it here. I will give my take at it here and than add comments on my editing. Quote:
ETA-SL-14.1: I do not think we need a title for this, and I can’t think of any fitting. ETA-SL-14.2: The Footnote i in origin from Appendix B, but it fit here well. ETA-SL-14.3: I restored the original reading as Christopher Tolkien suggest that the change was unintentional. ETA-SL-14.4, ETA-SL-14.5, ETA-SL-14.6 & ETA-SL-14.9: Editorial notes removed. ETA-SL-14.7: The Facsimile at least we must add, otherwise all the talk is without reference. ETA-SL-14.8: I think should as well add the transcripts as they make the letter readable for all. I reconstructed the reading of the third version from the text of the first and teh notes given for the third. ETA-SL-16.2: As we have given all this events from the Shire so much room we should not miss the Westmarch. ETA-SL-23 to ETA-SL-25: I would rather weave thes a bit more together to avoid redundance: Quote:
Findegil |
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#3 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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FY-HL-22: I had a similar thought, but I can see no other title which would work. Any other suggestions are welcome. I think it will be ok tho, since the end of the Third Age (the passing of Elrond) is included in this chapter.
I agree to all the rest, a very well-organized and cogent post. As always, you have caught much that I missed! Why did you remove the bit at the end of the English text of Aragorn's letter, where he says the date in the Rivendell months? Last edited by ArcusCalion; 07-24-2018 at 12:22 AM. |
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#4 | ||
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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After reading through the draft including the Epilogue, I think we may now include the portion of the Waldman Letter that talks about Sam after Frodo departs, since we are going to spend so much time with him later on in the chapter. Therefore, I added this addition after ETA-SL-07:
Quote:
In addition, now that the Epilogue breaks up the paragraph, ETA-SL-15's reference to 'Our King' has no antecedent. Therefore I would change it like so: Quote:
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#5 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,715
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I agree to both.
About the end of the transcription: That’s how I understood what was written in the note concerning the differences between the transcript of version I and III of the letter. I did not cross check with the elvish signs. But doing so, I found in Vinyar Tengwar #29 that I missed a number so the end must read: 'February, 6341 [=1436]' Respectfully Findegil |
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#6 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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Noted! Thank you
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#7 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
Posts: 337
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#8 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,715
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FY-HL-22: Is Of the Dominion of Men I title used by Tolkien? I don't think so. But anyhow it seems to me to be to broad. It is true that the Dominion of Men started with Elessar, but it did not end yet. So this title would cover all the History of Middel-earth from the crowning of Elessar to the prophecy of teh Last Battle (and as we talk about an fiegned history all our now real world history in between). That is a deal more than what we have put together in this chapter.
Respectfully Findegil |
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#9 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
Posts: 337
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Quote:
And as to your second objection - I agree, it's too broad: maybe something like The Beginning of the Dominion of Men?
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