Gollum VS. Hulk

[Rose Cotton]

Here's a nice little article to read about the new Incredible Hulk movie I guess is coming out. If you are interested maybe you'll read the entire thing. If not, skim it untill you get to where they start compareing the Hulk with Gollum. I hope PJ's set his CGI standards higher this year because it looks like he has some compitition. <A HREF="http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/29/1054177660167.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/29/1054177660167.html</A>

[Brinniel]

Here are some pictures to go with that article:<P>Gollum vs. The Hulk<BR> <P>Having seen the trailer, I'll admit that they did a pretty good job with creating the Hulk, but I still think that Gollum looks much more realistic. Gollum is the only CGI character I have ever truly saw as a real person/creature. Personally, I don't have much interest in seeing The Hulk.

[Tar-Palantir]

I saw the trailer too, and I think Gollum is more 'real' than the Hulk. Gollum has plenty of closeups that really do pass the test, the facial expressions alone (and those teeth) blow the Hulk away - not to mention the veiny, pallid skin which shows more dimension than the Hulk's green complexion does. In the trailer it looked very 'cartoony' for lack of a better word.<p>[ May 31, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

[Maikadilwen]

I've seen the trailer for The Hulk as well and all I could think about was Shrek.... <P>Gollum all the way!

[HCIsland]

ILM has been king of the mountain for special effects for so long and obviously they see The Hulk as their opportunity to show that still, no one does it better than them. Obviously they will be pumping their product before the release of the film and saying they're better than what Weta did will be a natural part of that.<P>Once the movie is out, comparing The Hulk to Gollum will happen automatically, so I'll wait for an objective comparison to be printed.<P>H.C.

[The Only Real Estel]

I think Gollum was done a little better.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Personally, I don't have much interest in seeing The Hulk. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> I would have more of an intrest in seeing it than I do if he were a little more down to size. I don't think I like movies to much with things that throw tanks around like pebbels, obviously the Hulk is praticaly invincable, & I just can't stand invincible characters.

[HCIsland]

I just want to know ...<P>... does the Hulk talk?<P>"Hulk smash tank good!" <P>H.C.

[balrogman]

i dunno about you guys, but i have been waiting to see the hulk for almost a year and a half! for some reason, i think it looks real, and gollum creeps me out..so im gonna have to go with my main man, the hulk

[Frodo 007]

ahahaha that is so funny!!!dont even think for a minute that that green blobby thingy can even come close to Gollum!!! what a laugh!!!some people are real idiots...thinking they can out do Gollum!!!

[Shy Hobbit]

I saw the trailer for the Hulk yesterday, I'm not impressed. I guess I was expecting something along the lines of Spiderman, but this guy looked totally computer animated. Yes, I know Gollum and Hulk are both indeed CGI, but the Hulk isn't nearly as believable.

[Aragost]

Gollum does look more realistic than the Hulk. The facial features on Gollum are much better than the ones on the Hulk.

[merenwen]

personally i think gollum looks much more realistic, but maybe that's because he's not green. i dunno, i read that article and if they put that much work into the hulk then maybe since i've only seen the trailer, he'll look more realistic throught out the movie. but i'm sticking with gollum on this one!

[Beruthiel]

To be honest I don't think I'll go and see Hulk at all. I'll probably just wait until it comes out on DVD or whatever. Its not really a big thing where I live, except for the fact that it stars Eric Bana who is an aussie... Its getting a bit annoying,<I>another</I> Marvel comic becoming a movie.... but please those hulk fans out there don't be offended, I've never read one of those comics ever so I don't really know what the story is about.<BR>

[Gorwingel]

I have already heard some reviews of the Hulk, and many people have not been impressed (but I know how all of us always agree with critics )<BR>I have heard that the Hulk looks very "cartoony", and not in a good way. Additionally I have also heard complants about the story (But this is not the place to talk about that).<P>One of the things that made Gollum so hard to create was that he was not a charater that was done on a large scale (like many CGI charaters of times before). He was a charater that was at the same scale as the actors, and he also talked and communicated with the real actors. There were so many details that they had to get perfect to make him work, and they did a very good job. Hulk just looks very large, angry, and not very detailed. I am personally not impressed.

[Arathiriel]

Well I am not impressed by the commercials thus far for <I>The Hulk</I> as he does indeed look way too cartoonish!<P>I think these people have a lot of hard work to do with the Hulk before they can bring him up to Gollum's level of quality!<P>

[Mattius]

I think Gollum will stand the test of time thanks to the work not only of the CGI artists but Andy Serkis who gave Gollum real character.<P>Don't get me wrong, I love Marvel Comic Films. Hulk looks great but Gollum is just that bit better.<P>Woah, Matrix, Star Wars, Marvel Comic Films and Lord of the Rings- what a great age to be a cinema goer!

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ... he does indeed look way too cartoonish! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>To be fair, the Hulk is based on a cartoon character, so that may well be intentional. Quite often, films such as this which have their roots in comic books are deliberately given a "comic book" feel to them. In the LotR films, on the other hand, realism is key to captivating the audience and making them believe in the events portrayed. So Gollum's movements and facial expressions had to be just as true to life as those of the "real" actors in order for him to be a believable character. And Serkis, Jackson and the SFX team certainly achieved that. With bells on.

[Beren87]

Hulk CG is terrible, I have the movie, and it's just terrible. Not what I was expecting at all. I really think Gollum is a much much better shown character.

[Everdawn]

The hulk does not compare! my god! it looks more cartoon than CGI!... Which is why i am not going to see it, (as much as i love Eric Bana) Gollum all the way!

[HCIsland]

<A HREF="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1056060626926&call_pag eid=968867495754&col=969483191630" TARGET=_blank>Hulk Review</A><P>This is the first review of The Hulk that I've read. I was trying not to get my hopes up, but I was very excited that Ang Lee (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - Sense and Sensibility) was directing it. The reviewer (a reviewer who's opinions I have respect for) was very impressed, comparing it films like Frankenstein and King Kong. Like Spider-man a year ago, I'm hoping that film makers got it right, getting to the heart of what these characters are about. I was very encouraged by the review.<P>No comparison is made to Gollum in the review, so I suppose this is off topic. Maybe we should have a general "Other Movies" thread just as there's an "Other Fantasy Books" thread in the books forum.<P>H.C.

[Brinniel]

Thought you guys might find these quotes interesting.

Here are some comments reviewer Bill Muller had to say on the special effects of The Hulk:

Then there's the other big thing: Does the entirely computer-generated Hulk look real?
Well, of course not. He looks like a reasonable special effect; that is to say, he does not look like a cartoon.
But when the Hulk shows up on screen, it's like watching King Kong or a dinosaur from Jurassic Park. He's not real, and we know it. But that doesn't matter so much. Despite the ever-improving skill of computer artists, audiences are still willing to accept a bit of chicanery here and there.

Here's a couple of comments on Gollum written when TTT came out:

Gollum's "performance" is incredible. There hasn't been a digital character display such a range of human characteristics ever; he's great!

...Andy Serkis, who provides the voice to the most convincing CGI character ever created, Gollum. It is safe to say Gollum is, in fact, more powerful and interesting than any of the beloved non-human Star Wars characters, with the exception of possibly Yoda.

Here is a short comment on what someone had to say on the Hulk as comparing to Gollum before The Hulk came to theaters:

There's also something deeply digital about this Hulk to me - he appears to be missing the seamless integration that made Gollum work so well.

Obviously, Gollum is still the best CGI character out there.

[peonydeepdelver]

Everytime I say Gollum, my mom cringes and says something to the effect of, "Ewwww, I don't like him, he creeps me out!" She doesn't like how he's obsessive over the Ring and she basically dislikes how realistic he is. She even had nightmares about him, whereas she isn't afraid of the Hulk, even though he could crush her and use her bones as a toothpick. In my opinion, the more realistic something is, the scarier it is, if it's meant to be creepy. Sorry if that's kind of confusing... <P>Oh, and I've been wondering for a while now, is the Hulk a good guy? 'Cause I wouldn't consider him good if he's running around smashing stuff like he's, er, smashing stuff.<P>Boy do I have a way with words...

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Oh, and I've been wondering for a while now, is the Hulk a good guy? 'Cause I wouldn't consider him good if he's running around smashing stuff like he's, er, smashing stuff.<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think the comparisons between Hulk and King Kong or Frankenstein are apt. A child's mind in an immensely powerful body. That may not be The Hulk that people are used to from much of the comics and TV but it's the one Ang Lee is giving us.<P>So, is he a good or bad guy? Like all the best characters out there, he's neither and both.<P>H.C.

[NAri Brassbow]

the hulk looks to cartoony when he moves his muscles don't flex like they do with gollum

[peonydeepdelver]

I also noticed something else. Spiderman was made into a live action movie last year, but although he was CGI, he did NOT look cartoony. Sometimes I was seriously wondering if Toby McGuire/Peter Parker was really under that costume swinging through the air on his web strings.<P>Now the Hulk, he doesn't look like he's real, even if you take away the fact that he's green and looks like he took an overload of steroids to get those huge muscles. Sure, he's got facial expressions, but I saw this one scene in a commercial where he's flying over a canyon or something, and it looks VERY fake. I'll see the movie, but only to see if the Hulk is truly better than Gollum, or if it's just a big hype over another superhero movie.

[Durelin]

Gollum wins because they had such an excellent actor to play out the part, which they then overlapped with the CGI: Andy Serkis. He's really amazing, and, though I'm no expert, that is a excellent technique!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the trailer it looked very 'cartoony' for lack of a better word. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He's a comic book character! Come on guys! They rock! You've got to love them! <P>Seriously, you haven't seen the old Hulk cartoon...I love them, still! I might actually see that tomorrow, so perhaps I will be back with new opinions...or just thoughts.

[Roccotari Eldandil]

Just a bit of mudslinging to do here: <BR>In the Gollum-Hulk comparison (see link), the author stated "Gollum, he was climbing across the mountains and a river but he doesn't get wet, he doesn't get dirty and doesn't interact that much.<BR>Gollum got wet; he got dirty; he interacted with his captors (even pouncing on and biting them); he, a CG character, was seamlessly inserted into a real environment; yet <I>he still looks so real it's incredible.</I> On the other hand, the Hulk looks like a mediocrely animated video game character. Give me Gollum over Hulk any day. I think ILM's ego is badly bruised for them to be making excuses like that.

[HCIsland]

Well I saw Hulk the other night with my son and I don't think Gollum fans have anything to worry about. Although in the close-ups, especially during Hulk's calmer moments, the animation was about up to par with Gollum, especially the eyes, his gross body movements were often cartoonish. I read that, unlike Gollum, Hulk motions were not based upon an actual actor that was there during filming. During filming they did the equivalent of a tennis ball on a stick just to give the real actors a point of eye contact.<P>Yes, Hulk interacts more with his environment, but that's the nature of the character. All Hulk does is significantly interact with his environment. Gollum does too, it's just far more subtle.<P>I think what's more important though is that Hulk is actually a very solid movie. Ang Lee really pushed the boundries of comic book movies (which have become a genre onto themselves). I know many folks that are used to the more traditional summer blockbuster will complain that there should have been more thrashing and trashing, but I for one am very appreciative of the risk Mr. Lee and Universal took in trying to shoot for the head as well as the heart. It would have been so easy for them to just give us the smashing wrapped around a cliched love story, but they knew they could deliver more.<P>H.C.

[Trippo The Hippo]

*Looks over shoulder to see if anyone will kill him for saying this.* Well I have not seen the movie The Hulk, but I do think the hulk looks better. As far as movies lotr all the way. However lotr should not win all the awards. We can share right guys? Right?

[Burzdol]

I will bring back an earlier question, Does the Hulk talk?<P>I think he just groans and growls. And anyway, Gollum actually talked. Even if Gollum was a little stretching his "s."<P>Burzdol

[Everdawn]

I just hate CGI characters non stop! The hulk and the CGI Spiderman, were all really obviously digital, but Gollum on the otherhand, looks real, and all the other CGI inserts, thats why I was able to sit through the movie. <P>Shrek, was another I couldnt stand, AHHH! That style of animation drives me nuts! Though i am going to see Finding Nemo which was made by the same people... But it Has Rove McManus in it.. Yay!.. say hi to ya mum for me!...lol..

[Arwen_Evenstar]

Im gonna mirror Brinniel's original post. I don't think that the Hulk is very well intergrated(is that the right word?) into the backround, whereas with gollum, i sometimes forgot that he was CGI because he blends in so well! <BR>And i think his interaction with Mr. Astin and Mr. Wood was masterfully done!<BR>~nat~

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I will bring back an earlier question, Does the Hulk talk? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually, he has one line in a dream sequence that I just loved.<P>"Puny Human."<P>You can see Ang Lee has a love for comics.<P>H.C.

[Finwe]

That sounds like something the Hulk would say. It reminds me of Gollum's line, "Stupid, fat Hobbit!"

I actually have to disagree with HCIsland on this one. The Hulk's animation was, I thought, one of the only endearing aspects of the movie. I had heard mixed reviews before going to see it, but I pushed them all to the side and put my trust in Ang Lee. After all, he's never done me wrong yet. Unfortunately, the movie itself was mind-numbing. It was frighteningly slow and Lee put far too much effort in the story itself. He could have cut off about 20 minutes just by taking off the long slow shots of people silent, with contemplative looks on their faces. But the CGI was actually pretty good. Not as good as Gollum, but served the needs of the movie perfectly.<P>Gweed

[Shy Hobbit]

Ok, after seeing Hulk I'm going to add some comments. Also hoping this doesn't get off topic... <P>Hulk is a comic book character. So it's not too far fetched for him to look a bit, if not ALOT cartoonish. Although that one scene in the desert where he's sliding around in the sand was horrible. It just screamed "CG". Reminded me of watching Toy Story. It was a fairly good movie, although I have to agree it was a bit dragged out. Just got a little to chatty at times. My mom said it looked like Hulk had hobbit feet while I kept thinking "Cave troll..." the mutant dogs reminded me of PJ's wargs as well. I guess I'm just so corrupted, everything reminds me of LotR <P>Ang Lee brought Hulk to life within it's context, he's a comic character and looks like one. <P>Peter Jackson and WETA brought Gollum to life, and a very believable Gollum at that. <P>It wasn't fair, or very well researched however, for the writer of that article to say that Gollum doesn't interact with his enviroment and fellow characters. As was said before, jumping, wrestling and biting are indeed interacting. <P>And... the mirror scene made me jump a mile outta the chair. Although it was a good scene

[peonydeepdelver]

Okay, after seeing The Hulk, I shall give my unprofessional review to help shed some light on this "battle" between the Hulk and Gollum. (NOTE: some spoilers for those wanting to see The Hulk...)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Although that one scene in the desert where he's sliding around in the sand was horrible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I completely agree with Shy Hobbit on this. Have you ever seen those videos of astronauts on the moon bouncing really high because of the lack of gravity? Picture the Hulk jumping like that, only like 1000 feet higher along the Grand Canyon, as if Arizona's just a big trampoline.<BR>The Hulk does sweat, and he does get dirty and sandy. But bullets <B>literally</B> bounce off of him. That annoyed me somewhat.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> the mutant dogs reminded me of PJ's wargs as well <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, the mutant dogs were vicious like the wargs, but if you have a dog (which I suspect many of you do), then you would immediately notice that of the three dogs only the poodle looked like what a real poodle would look like with green glowing eyes. The two pitbulls were barely close to resembling any sort of dog. For those of you who have seen Finding Nemo (which I love ) the pitbulls looked more like Bruce the shark than like dogs.<BR>The thing that ticked me off the most was the fact that when he flexed his muscles, he didn't flex them. What I mean by this is thatwhen the Hulk flexed his muscles, they didn't change. He didn't have to bother flexing his muscles since they didn't move at all! The only muscle moving I saw was when he breathed. <BR>HA! Gollum doesn't interact with his environment? When the Hulk did his moon jumps, a little puff of sand and dust and some pebbles would fly up, unless he landed on some concrete. You call that interacting? Hardly.<P>Sorry my rant was so long, but I obviously didn't like this movie, for other reasons than the Hulk being noticeably CG. I know some of you are thinking "Shut up, it's supposed to look cartoony since it's based on a comic book", but I don't care, since I'm in one of my mindless ramblings. I apologize if I've offended any Hulk fans out there on the Downs, and please don't hunt me down and gut me like a fish. All in all, I realize the Hulk is a comic book character. I really don't mind the fact that he's bright green, but he isn't even worthy enough to hold a stick to Gollum when it comes to "interacting with his environment" and detail. Gollum is a believably real character that you can practically forget that he's a CGI, and the Hulk is a believably real giant green guy who seriously needs anger management. Thank you if you read all the way through my senseless rant, and good luck understanding it.

[Everdawn]

The thing is that Its only that i probably cant get over seeing Eric Bana in anything else but "Chopper" (if you wanna see a movie ..) which is probably why i hate the CGI Hulk in the Hulk. <P>But I think ask anyone and they will say Gollum is better done.

[The Only Real Estel]

I haven't seen The Hulk yet, still. Balrogman, that doesn't mean that I don't want ot see it though. I think it might have a shot at being cool. But I've also heard from my friends that have watched it that at times it was like just watching a huge video game, or a cutscene for a cpu game.