Gimli's combat scenes

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Does anyone else find Gimli's combat scenes to be less realistic than Aragorn's or Legolas'? I'm sure the film-makers did not put as much time into how to make the 'axe-work' work.<P>Thoughts?

[HCIsland]

I don't know. Haven't seen too many axe fights to draw a comparison to. The seem good to me. <P>Viggo Mortensen really went to town when it came to learning swordplay expecting John Rhys Davies (and whoever his body double is) to live up to him is likely unrealistic. <P>H.C.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Sorry, I totally forgot to put my main argument in my first post.<P>When Gimli hits an Orc with his axe, it just looks like he clubs them, you know? Like the Orc is knocked down because he gets winded.<P>Whereas with Aragorn and Legolas, you hear slicing!

[Balin999]

Eomer, you are right! I noticed that too, though I forgot it by now.<BR>Yeah, I remember that I felt a bit disappointed because, well I hoped that you'd see some scenes where they show an axe doing as it is supposed to: to cut off heads.<BR>But the movie is for thirteen-year-olds and you don't see very much blood in it, so I think that should be the main point. Maybe they will sell a Director's cut in a few years with "real-axe" scenes. But I fear that it won't change in RotK.

[Tar-Palantir]

I agree with you, and also because axes by their nature should bury deeply with a clean strike, and it did seem as though they were just bouncing off like a club might. The comment about teenagers is probably right on the mark though, having to keep the movie PG-13. P. Jackson said recently that TTT ext. DVD will be rated R because of some added scenes at Helm's Deep. Like we need more added to Helm's Deep, right? I'll see If I can find the quote.<P>Here it is:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "We've got a PG-13 battle scene, but it's a fairly gritty battle. It's about as far as we could possibly push it within that rating. We filmed some heads and limbs being chopped off which we've taken out. We'll probably put them back in the DVD, which will have an R rating."<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[HCIsland]

I think there's a practical issue here as well. To faking a sword stab is easier, you stab behind the guy and he fakes the hit. I axe is more difficult though as there is far more impact. It would likely look ridiculus if John swung behind his target, stopped the blade himself while the actor faked the blow.<P>Having a head come off would be a good add on, but there likely is a committee out there counting how many heads come off per movie and if there were to many it would likely seem gratuitous. I guess they want to save the good blows for Aragorn, but you're right, seeing Gimli score an impressive hit would be nice.<P>H.C.

I think one of the most important parts they took out of Gimli's battle scenes were when the battle is over and Legalos and Gimli compare #'s of orcs killed by each

[Hirilaelin]

You will notice that in Helm's Deep, they actually did have the "contest" running. At least for the first part. Then though, they just kinda dropped it. By the way, will TTT DVD be rated R?! ACK! I don't really see why limbs chopped off is R, but.... Maybe because they can still live... Hm... Gimli's battle scenes were good, I mean, the guy's face is covered with prothetics! It's a wonder he can see at all!! I did miss the chopping sound though. CHAWUCK! SLICE! Not there at all... Pretty good though for not actually being a axman. Could have been better is my final answer. Pretty good, but probably could have been better. <P>~Hirilaelin <P>P.S. RATE ME PLEASE!

Even though Gimli's fight scenes were not up to par with what I invisioned, I still enjoyed them. When watching him battle you have to take certain things into account. Gimli is small and stout so you can't really compare his fighting style to that of a Man or an Elf. His hight would also make it very difficult to chop the heads off an on coming orc. I agree that it would have been great to see heads fly, but Gimli just isn't tall enough. You many also be disappointed with his battling because of his style. But lets face it, Gimli is a dwarf and they are of brute strength. You can't compare a dwarf's style an Elf's. As far as filming his fight scenes, Gimli's actor had a difficult time rehearsing them. On the extended edition, Davies states that he would just tell the stunt doubles (Orcs) to run at him and he would just strike them. This could help explain why combat scenes are the way they are. But I will always cheer for the Dwarf before the Elf.

[Laialthriel]

When you watch the behind-the-scenes in FotR, I believe it is Dom who is talking about John's fighting scenes. He comments on the fact previously mentioned; that John has the prosthetics all over his face and it limits his vision to basically directly ahead, so that in itself would be a little hard to fight with. Then he's got the hair, the helmet, and the body armor to get in the way. Not the most ideal battling conditions. <P>Dom also comments on the fact that John didn't really even <I>try</I> to miss the orc actors...he just swung! (I love this guy!) So that might account for the 'chopping' instead of slicing. I admit I did stop to ponder his battle sceness realism. But I think it just added to the character of Gimli. Like Phillipa said, 'If you want to know what a Dwarf was like, you cast John Rhys-Davies as Gimli. He'll <I>show</I> you.'<P><BR>~*Laialthriel*~

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Remember that Mortensen and Bloom weren't really slicing those extras. That was the magic of modern cinema. Why couldn't they do that for Gimli too? I mean, look at Gollum. They created him! I'm sure they could have done something better for Gimli.

[Isenna]

Yes, but as someone said (sorry I'm not giving credit, too laxy to look) he is kind of short to be cutting Orc heads off! Maybe hands at the wrist...<P>Uh, I wouldn't jump on that R rated thing. That's what was said about FOTR Extended Ed. I hope they add character moments, such as more of Gimli and Legolas's contest, instead of rolling heads. I was disspointed in the editing of TTT, and it will only be worse if Helm's Deep is much longer. People said it should be, because of how long the battle is, but no one complained when they didn't *actually* stay in Lorien for a month.

While I do agree that Helm's Deep was a little drawn out, I enjoyed every minute of it. When I first thought about what the battle would look like on the screen, I had my doubts. Hollywood has a fedish with jazzing up battle scenes in a highly stylistic way. In reality, when you have ten thousand enemies breathing down your neck, you don't care about your style. You're just gonna start swinging at whatever gets too close to you. As much as I like Helm's Deep, I hope they don't add too much to the Extended Edition. I would much rather see more of the Ents or Sam's struggle with Gollum and Frodo.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I am not asking for Orc heads rolling on the floor courtesy of Gimli the Dwarf. That has nothing to do with why Gimli can't slice an Orc in half (maybe not literally) wherever he hits them.<P>You see arrows and blades sticking in Orcs, yet we never see the axe sticking in them.

[Laialthriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Remember that Mortensen and Bloom weren't really slicing those extras. That was the magic of modern cinema. Why couldn't they do that for Gimli too? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When you watch the behind-the-scenes where Dom is talking about this, he mentions that John didn't like spending too much time on his fight scenes. He would just talk to the stunt men in his scene and say "Okay, you come at me first...yes, and then you, then you..." and so forth. [by the way, Dom's John Rhys-Davies impression is absolutely hilarious!] He really didn't bother with coreography. Then Dom talks about how John didn't even <I>try</I> to miss the stunt men. He just didn't take the time to do it I guess. <P>~~*Laialthriel*~~<p>[ January 23, 2003: Message edited by: Laialthriel ]