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11-03-2003, 05:28 PM | #1 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 16
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Faithfulness in Middle Earth
In reviewing the Ainulindale last night, I started to think about JRRT's message here on loyalty/faithfulness. This idea is undoubtably central not only to this portion of the professors writings, but seems to be the unifing theme of his entire mythology. Perhaps most interesting is how he deals with the unfaithful, more specifically traitors. Melkor, being the greatest traitor of all, through his disloyalty to Eru's vision, sets a precident that follows throughout the rest of Middle Earth's fate. Every major historical event revolves around the idea of treachery. Also, the traitors in these events all seem to share a similar fate. Some of my favorites are Melkor, Feanor, Mim, Sauron, Gollum, Saruman, and Grima. I question the professor's "obsession" with disloyalty and ask how do these ideas resonate in a larger context. What is JRRT trying to tell us about how we live? Any ideas....
PS this is my first post. I'm very excited about joining this new community.
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Yet the lies that Melkor...sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and connot be destroyed, and ever and annon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit unto the latest days. |
11-03-2003, 08:18 PM | #2 |
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How come everybody always forgets me in the list of traitors???
Er... my user name, at any rate. My poor, unappreciated traitor.... *pets him* People, in my opinion, tend to underrate his significance in the stories. So forgive me if I rant. Gorlim's struggle with faithfulness is one of the most stirring in all the books, I think. He was faced with a choice between two loyalties: to his wife, or to his captain. He chose wrongly, and what does that say to us, the readers? It's a real pickle, to be sure; especially for those who read religious connotations in the works. Was Gorlim's betrayal an abandonment of chivalry? Was it foolishness? Or is Gorlim merely a character to be pitied for the torments he was put through? Or... can Gorlim be seen as a twisted sort of martyr? It is clear that he had to break *one* oath. He was given a choice to break the bonds of marraige by allowing himself to die, or to betray the faith of his Captain by revealing their hiding place at Tarn Aeluin. I have not decided one way or another, but I would like to offer the speculation that in this specific case Tolkien is setting an example by having Gorlim remain faithful to his marraige before his Captain. Though the end was still death, he was martyred for the holier of the two bonds. |
11-03-2003, 08:19 PM | #3 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Out there with the truth. Come find me.
Posts: 317
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We were actually discussing something similar to this in chat tonight. Does Tolkien represent rehabilition after treachery? It's a different track, but the same theme. We were specifically discussing Maedhros and Maglor. We decided that they come the closest to rehabilitation. What keeps them from repenting, though, is the loyalty you mention. They are loyal to the oath they swore in Valinor. So, loyalty can also be a negative thing, when it is to the wrong purpose.
P.S. Welcome to the Downs. [ November 03, 2003: Message edited by: The X Phial ]
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But then there was a star danced, and under that was I born. |
11-03-2003, 08:42 PM | #4 |
Deathless Sun
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Loyalty is often praised because it is a very strong unifying force. The Fellowship held together (for the most part [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) because of loyalty, and it was only because Boromir became disloyal that they "broke up," although I rather think that it would have had to happen sometime.
Too much of any virtue can be a bad thing. The Fëanorians are an excellent example of that. The idea that they had, of following Morgoth "to the ends of the Earth" after the Silmarils, and to avenge the murder of Finwë (go me!) was a good one, but the degree to which they clung to that oath fast became unhealthy. They let that Oath, that loyalty, blur common sense and probably used it as an excuse to get their way in places, when all else failed (ex. Celegorm and Curufin). Even when they saw that they were in the wrong, and that their right to the Silmarils did not exist any more (in the case of Maedhros and Maglor) they still clung to that loyalty, and it eventually killed every single one of them.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
11-03-2003, 09:35 PM | #5 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Out there with the truth. Come find me.
Posts: 317
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In fact, I would argue that Boromir was too loyal. He let his loyalty to Minas Tirith and pride in his own abilities, and those of his city, cloud his judgement. He let it be known early that his first loyalty was always to Minas Tirith. I think the argument is for loyalty tempered with reason and humility. Sam follows Frodo out of loyalty, but he also knows his own weaknesses and uses his own sense when he needs to.
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But then there was a star danced, and under that was I born. |
11-04-2003, 12:03 AM | #6 | |
Animated Skeleton
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Wasn't the original topic why Tolkien had his books riddled with betrayals?
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"One is one and all alone and evermore shall be it so." |
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11-04-2003, 12:54 AM | #7 | |
Haunted Halfling
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules
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On the larger theme of disloyalty, perhaps it reflects the emptiness of swearing fealty to an impure or material end. Perhaps this mars the idea of loyalty in itself. I haven't fully explored this thought, but it is an interesting thing to speculate upon! Thanks for introducing yourself and the topic, Mungo of Bracegirdle! Cheers, Lyta
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“…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.” |
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11-04-2003, 07:06 PM | #8 | |
Animated Skeleton
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"One is one and all alone and evermore shall be it so." |
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11-04-2003, 09:04 PM | #9 | |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 16
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Yet the lies that Melkor...sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and connot be destroyed, and ever and annon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit unto the latest days. |
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11-04-2003, 11:44 PM | #10 |
Animated Skeleton
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I think that in the Silmarillion, Melkor does not so much "persuade" the other Ainur to change their parts as they are confused, or misled, by the dischord that the change in the tune creates. They are unable to keep their assigned parts in the confusion that follows. But this is interesting. If we're going to dicuss the form of Melkor's music, we might also question the second and third themes that Eru calls forth to battle the din. If Melkor's theme was manifested in treachery, what were Eru's themes embodied as?
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"One is one and all alone and evermore shall be it so." |
11-05-2003, 11:25 PM | #11 | |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 16
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Cheers
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Yet the lies that Melkor...sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and connot be destroyed, and ever and annon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit unto the latest days. |
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11-06-2003, 12:22 AM | #12 | ||
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Sorry, this is going to be rather long...
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"One is one and all alone and evermore shall be it so." |
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