*TTT - Arwen (Liv Tyler)*

[Estelyn Telcontar]

How did you like Arwen's role in this movie; did you think Liv Tyler did a good job?

[TolkienGurl]

Beautiful acting by a beautiful actress! She was really great. Not anyway like the "warrior" we saw in Fellowship. She is really heartbroken by the choice she must make. I cried. Again.<P>"There is still hope."

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I really liked the flash forward stuff... the flashback stuff was OK, it was needed to show more emotion of her choice, I understand... but the flash forward to the death of Aragorn was truly very sad and heartfelt.

[TolkienGurl]

I liked the flash forward stuff, also, but I will not let my mind accept the fact that Aragorn dies. Nope. No way.<p>[ December 18, 2002: Message edited by: TolkienGurl ]

[Birdland]

Tigerlily - I agree with you on the flash forward scene, but I believe it really belonged in the third film, as a last chance discussion between Elrond and Arwyn. <P>Plopping it in the middle of the second movie was just plain distracting and confused an already confusing sequence of events. <P>If they wanted to give Arwyn more screen time, they should have just let her ride off with Haldir. <P>(Man, I actually can't wait to see this film again in order to see if my bad opinions are as justified as think they are.)

[vanwalossien]

Well, I liked Liv Tyler a lot better this time than in FotR.They turned Arwen into a warrior in FotR, and it didn't seem right at all. Not Liv's fault... Arwen is brave, choosing mortality, but not 'warrior brave', it's more subtle, and they managed to show that in TTT. Liv Tyler was surprisingly good when the part of Arwen was made a little more 'right'.

[Rose, the youngest]

I liked this version of Arwen. It seemed to be that she was a character of a subtle importance, but enough to alter the tone of Aragorn's pain after the scuffle with the goblins and wargs. Her emotion, too, was moving. A crying elf is a very sad thing.

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

*Sigh* I was so relieved there was no Battle Arwen. But I hated how it took every ounce of air in her lungs to speak. She was cool though. My dad's friend kept calling me the elf-chick and the first thing he said to my dad when he got to the movies was "Where's my translating Elf Chick!?!" I was kinda embarassed but, whatever. I thought it got kind of confusing with the flashbacks, and it looked like they thought the only way they could incorperate that into the film was to send Aragorn downstream.<P>Aylwen

[TolkienGurl]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>A crying elf is a very sad thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well said, <B>Rose, the youngest</B>!<P>That was one of the most moving parts in the movie for me. Yet, even though her father is "rubbing it in her face," if you follow me, she still chooses to live her life with the man she loves. A very unselfish thing to do.

[Mintyztwin]

I didn't like that she was in the movie at all. She wasn't supposed to be there! I thought Liv Tyler did a good job considering the limitations -- and there were many. <P>When she Aragorn woke up, or dreamed about her, and she was there, that was just wrong. I don't think it should have been in the movie. <P>Also, I found it very confusing to whether she decided to stay, or go. It appeared that she had decided to stay, and then she walks off with the elves!!! <P>Also, where were her brothers?!?! And why didn't they show her working on Aragorn's flag? I would've been okay with that!

[Arwen Evenstar the Fair]

I really liked Liv Tyler's performance of Arwen, it was so beautiful, yet so sad and depressing. I wanted to cry when they showed her standing beside Aragorn's grave just waiting to die from grief. It was horrible! I think they just should have gone to the West together, but thats just me. <P>What I don't like is when Aragorn tries to give the Evenstar back to Arwen, I mean omg he just shoves it in her face, that is sooooo wrong!!!!!!! But I'm glad he decides to stay true.

[thorondil]

I was actually relieved when I saw what they did with Arwen in TTT. People were telling me she brought Anduril to Aragorn in Rohan! I was happy not to see this (When the elves showed up at Helm's Deep [arrrg another story] I was like 'Here we go!'). I love to hear her speak Elvish.<P>And they did show her in a diaphanous gown!

[AddictedtoRumil]

Sorry but i think that having the character Arwen in the movie was a mistake.

[Diamond18]

Liv was quite good...everything about her scenes was good except for the placement. They were good in and of themselves, but were obviously wormed into TTT where they didn't really "fit".<P>The flashback/dream was odd in that I couldn't quite figure out what is was. When she kisses him after the over-cliff-into-river stunt it was kind of ruined by the horse coming up and kissing him too. Uh..."Brego my love"...<P>I liked the flashforward. Awesome costume! Loved the veil! And the way they morphed Aragorn's corpse into stone was good, too. It was one of those "Ah, emotion, is that you?" scenes for me...but yeah...it probably would have made more sense in RotK.<P>But, hello Elrond! Have you forgotten that she's "half"-elven too, and can decide her fate?<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

[Lush]

Once again, Liv was on hand to give the movie a little oomph; let us be realistic, a little bit of female sex-appeal is required by almost every major motion picture (male sex-appeal was definitely not lacking from this one, but must we girls have all the fun? ). The flash-forward scene gave me goosebumps: in the positive sense. It was horror and enchantment weaved into one. Furthermore, if it was not for the colorful flashbacks, our friends who have not read the book would have been rooting for poor Eowyn all the way.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

For me, Arwen was involved in the most tear-jerking scene, although I'm not sure anyone's gonna agree with me.<P>Arwen is leaving. She looks up to the balcony. Elrond is there and is looking down at her. Look at Elrond's face. The guy is CRUSHED! His daughter is heartbroken, therefore he is heartbroken.<P>(I don't think there's an Elrond thread but I think this has a lot to do with Arwen as well)<P>I loved the Elrond/Arwen scene. It was really touching.<P>Some people commented on how the line was wrong, that Arwen wouldn't linger and would become mortal and die. But Elrond had foresight, and maybe it was just obvious to him that Aragorn would die before her.

i thought from the general spoilers going around before the movie was opened that when Arwen leaves it is to go to Lorien to be 'protected' and that they cut all the other parts of that out. there is a line from the trailer that is missing something like " you have the gift of foresight tell me what you have seen" and her walking up to someone. it wasn't there which was a shame. it might have also explained how Elrond had sent some of <I>Galadriel's</I>elves to Helm's Deep

[Elanor]

I liked Arwen in this movie. <P>I had read that she reforges Anduril herself and brings the sword to Aragorn at Helm's Deep, and I was *really* worried! But I needn't have.<P>The most moving scene in the whole film for me (which is surprising, as I didn't expect to think that) was the one with Arwen and Elrond, when he asked something like "don't you have some love for me too?" (paraphrase - what's the exact line somebody please?)

I loved Arwen in this movie. I loved the flashforward scene, but I too refuse to believe that Aragorn dies. I really like the scenes that focus on Liv Tyler's face, where you get to see how heartbroken and sad she is. It's all in her eyes. Very very beautiful role. Oh yeah and I cried too.

[Arwen Evenstar the Fair]

The line, (i believe) is: "Do I not also have your love?"

[Diamond18]

Or did you want it in Elvish? Sorry...can't help there. But that was touching, I suppose. I mean, I didn't really feel it at that moment because I was thinking the Elrond was being a jerk leading up to the line. But perhaps when I watch it again I will feel more sympathy for him.

[-Imrahil-]

Arwen was great. It's true that she does speak slightly weird, but overall, she was great I thought.

[Ithaeliel]

I agree, Arwen was much better in TTT, and her part was more fundamental to the story and not just an add-in for the heck of it. Great acting; the mourning scene broke my heart.

I was never so moved by a 5 minute performance as I was when Elrond was confronting Arwen. My God, Liv Talylor is GOOD!<P>PS wots a spelll cheker?

[lindil]

Arwen was justified with being in the second film in principle [due to the Tale of Aragorjn and Arwen mentioneing her 'watching over Aragorn in thought'i.e. using Osanwe], but in practice it was 2nd rate. her acting was tolerable, but I am sorry folks, Liv is the weakest casting link in the flick. In all fairness, i ahve tried to think of someone better and could not, but if i were in PJ's place and could not have found anyone better, i most certainly would not have moved her front and center!<P>She is just to earthy for my taste of Elven women. Cate B. pulls it off [ especially in the extended DVD, but she is 10x the actress liv is] and sensual, and I hate to say it but just not beautiful enough. <P>On the really off chance Liv see's this, I do apologize, I am speaking of her [you ] in this role only, she just does not possibly make it as one of the 2 most beautiful women in the world at that time.<P>So the less of her seen the better in my book.

[LadyElbereth]

Arwen was so much better in this movie. Liv Tyler did an excellent job. I absolutely loooved the flash forward scene.

[the mortal elf]

I haven't cried this much since I first saw Titantic Liv did an awesome job and I think all her scenes were tastefully done. The first flashback kind of scared me though: her leaning over Aragorn and for a moment you can see no sleeve! *gasp* The flash forward scene was quite possibly my favorite part of the whole movie (she has a great costume!), not to mention that it's heartbreaking. And all her and Elrond's conversations...just superb. When Elrond is looking down on her it does look like his heart is broken. Don't you just love them both?

[Lush]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> she just does not possibly make it as one of the 2 most beautiful women in the world at that time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> I think that's largely a matter of taste, lindil. Arguing about taste is pointless, so I won't.

[lindil]

But I want to fight!!!! No really it is about taste. All of this is. I forgot to mention that the flash fwd scene was good. One of the nicest parts of the movie. Minas Tirith/Rathdinen was very much as I pictured it in my mind. That is where PJ excels , when he gets out of the way of Howe and Lee! <P>All the new dialog between her and Agent Elrond though reduced Elrond's wisdom and nobility to that of a co-dependant whiner. " don't you love you father too".<P>yuch. I always thought the way they parted in the RotK and the way Elrond handled himself w/ Aragorn re: his daughter was extremely noble and PJ wasted alot to make up his own version.<P>Elrond telling Aragorn when he came of age that no man but the King of both Arnor and Gondor was worthy of his daughters hand was undoubtedly the very thing that helped drive him to become the man he was. And I doubt Elrond could have failed to forsee that. He gave Aragorn a quest just as Thingol did. But not a vicious self-destructive one that backfired in a horrible way, but one that suited and challenged Aragorn's real nature.<BR>Masterful. <P>PJ's Elrond is a pale disfigured shadow of JRRT's.<p>[ December 26, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Nenya]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I mean, I didn't really feel it at that moment because I was thinking the Elrond was being a jerk leading up to the line. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, try to see it from his point of view: your daughter is going to give up immortal life, even eternal happiness , to be with someone who almost certainly is going to die very soon. In short, ruining her life. Elrond would've actually been a <I>bad</I> parent if he hadn't opposed to that.

[lindil]

Yes Nenya, but Elrond handles it with nobility in the book, agent Elrond in the movie whines and cojoles, refusing to let her 1,000 plus year old daughter make up her own mind. PJ is in effect re-casting Elrond him back into Thingol mode. <P>not a swift move in my opinion.<P><BR>So I guess if a Silmarillion is done to restore balance we will have to have Thingol be reasonable and nice to beren<P>

[Man-of-the-Wold]

I must concur with Lindil that the real pitfall of the whole Arwen Saga in the Film is how it demeans the Elrond character, even as I look forward to her changing course at the Grey Havens, riding away with the Grey Company, or some such thing, which however much a departure from the Books might be fun to watch. <P>And, again as other's note one of JRRT's apparently biggest regrets with LoTR, although I think he was a habitual second-guesser, was that he didn't do more with Arwen, as may have been indicated in the Red Book, of course.<P>Returning to Mr. Weaving's part (I don't think he should be forever damned by his Matrix role; he's a good actor, even if they need to get him a really close shave someday), he does come off much less "wise" than in the Book with all of his disparaging of Mankind, and the reduction of his relationship with Arwen into a mere personal matter, which while endearing is a little lame.<P>However, as I've argued elsewhere, in the Book he doesn't want Arwen staying unless the King is restored, signifying that Sauron is fully defeated and she won't be captured, and another part of it is the whole "royalty" thing about a proper union. This last one would not have been natural for modern audiences as for JRRT the hopeless romantic.<P>But besides dramatic tension and the film-maker's wish to have audiences accept Film-Elrond's dispagement, they also want Mr. Weaving to have his own big and unsubtle change of heart through the course of the Films. So, as alluded to by his and telepathic Galadriel's decision to send the Haldir Special Forces to Helms Deep, in Film-RotK he'll likely reconcile himself to loving Mankind, Aragorn and appreciating his & Arwen's Love (not unlike his parents, paternal grandparents and mother's paternal great-grandparents) as he does from the get-go in the Books, despite stiff conditions that he feels he must set for their matrimony for both of their sakes.

[Arwen Evenstar the Fair]

interesting

[aragornreborn]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What I don't like is when Aragorn tries to give the Evenstar back to Arwen, I mean omg he just shoves it in her face, that is sooooo wrong!!!!!!! But I'm glad he decides to stay true. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, he loves her, right. He wants what's best for her which would be for her to go into the West. If she wants to stay, that's her decision. But Aragorn doesn't want to force her into anything. Because he loves her so much and wants what's best for her, he is willing to sacrifice his feelings for her for her well-being.

[Lush]

To add to what has already been mentioned regarding the Arwen/Elrond dynamic in the film: allow me to remind you that Tolkien himself wrote that the final parting of father and daughter was a "bitter" one. Therefore, Peter Jackson's portrayal of a nervous and p*ssed off Elrond is not necessarily inaccurate.<P>I agree with lindil that Elrond's character is largely misrepresented in the films we have seen so far, but, as Man-of-the-Wold has pointed out, Peter Jackson is mostly just being "unsubtle."<P>Why? Because when one is cramming a thousand pages worth of extremely complex stuff into films that <I>must</I> be commercially succesful, one can rarely afford to be subtle. <P>That being said, I can forgive, and enjoy the Arwen/Elrond debacle. It was beautifully photographed, dramatically tense, ect., etc.

[PippinSqueak]

She played her part better in TTT, than FotR. She wasn't meant to be a fighting elf, so her portrayal was much better in this movie. She really is a beautiful actress which helps since elves are supposed to be beautiful. She's also very good at looking grieved beyond belief. Kudos to her for that!

[the mortal elf]

A lot of you guys are making the argument that "Agent Elrond" is throwing all previous wisdom out the window. Well, since when is love always wise? He's just a loving Father (possibly overprotective, as the case may be.)

[Lindolirian]

That's right! Don't make fun of my alter ego!<P>Sorry I just couldn't resist...

[Arwen Imladris]

I liked her more in this movie, but that might not be saying much. The little dream things where a bit confusing, but there really was not another way to effectively show what was going on. I was much releived when she was not there with the other elves at helms deep.

[Nurumaiel]

I know a lot of people don't like Arwen being in TTT, but Pete had to make it work for non-LOTR fans as well.<P>I did like her much better in this movie. I didn't mind how she saved Frodo -she HAD to be introduced to the movies as a character, not just being like one of the elves at the council, sitting around and not saying anything- but I think her role in this movie was much closer to Arwen.<P>Liv Tyler also did a wonderful job. Of everyone in the movie, she and Viggo are the ones who sound like they're actually SPEAKING Elvish.<P>There's just one thing I don't understand... if she gives Aragorn the Evenstar, how's Frodo going to get it at the end of the ROTK?