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05-13-2003, 03:48 PM | #1 |
Pile O'Bones
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Names of The Nazguls
Are there other Nazguls except from Khamūl who is mentioned by name by Tolkien. This question has been in my mind for a while now, and I sure would like to get the answer.
Khamūl was the second in command after the Witch-King, who was then the third in command. Is the third mentoned anywhere? Khamūl lived in Dol Guldur since he was the Lieutenant of Dol Guldur. The Witch-King dwelt in Minas Morgul. Where did the other seven dwell? Did they stay with either Kamūl or the Witch-King, or did they have their own fortresses far to the east and south?
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05-13-2003, 05:49 PM | #2 |
Wight
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Well Hans Markus Rod,
IF you do a search you will find about fifteen different discussions on this subject. Here are the ones that I thought were the best: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin...c&f=1&t=001938 and, http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin...c&f=1&t=002550 Basically, all that they say is that only three of the "Nazgul" were named. The Witch King of Angmar, Khamul, and Gothmog... only Gothmog wasn't really a Nazgul. ~Scott
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05-13-2003, 06:04 PM | #3 | |
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05-13-2003, 07:06 PM | #4 |
Wight
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its funny, because on LotR trading cards, all the nazgul have names but i cant remember them, even though theyre not true
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05-13-2003, 08:12 PM | #5 |
Hungry Ghoul
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What's funnier is that the 'names' on the cards and I believe some other places (someone else 'invented' them IIRC) aren't really names but just Quenya for 'Ringwraith 2' to 'Ringwraith 9'. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
[ May 13, 2003: Message edited by: Sharkū ] |
05-14-2003, 08:54 AM | #6 |
Haunting Spirit
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Sharku is, of course, correct. In the Decipher card game, because they didn't want to use non-canon names derived from sources other than Tolkien himself, they used generic names translated into Quenya. Here's an article on the subject:
http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherin...thenazgul.html |
07-03-2003, 06:50 PM | #7 |
Haunting Spirit
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this is something i never got. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] would someone please tell me who Gothmog was! i thought he was a balrog under the service of Melkor, but then i read in an unofficial book he was a Nazgul! [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
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07-04-2003, 08:53 AM | #8 | |
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07-04-2003, 02:20 PM | #9 |
Haunting Spirit
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He may have been a nazgūl, though I too believe he was a Black Numenorean. But we cannot be sure.
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07-04-2003, 04:38 PM | #10 |
Hungry Ghoul
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We cannot certainly say whether Gothmog was a Nazgūl or not, and with even less certainty can we say what else he was if he wasn't a Wraith. So please stop stating the utter speculation that he might have been a Black Numenórean as fact.
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07-04-2003, 06:08 PM | #11 | |
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[ July 04, 2003: Message edited by: Gorthol ]
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07-04-2003, 07:23 PM | #12 | |
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07-04-2003, 07:55 PM | #13 | |
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07-07-2003, 09:23 AM | #14 |
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07-07-2003, 11:11 AM | #15 | |
A Northern Soul
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Quote:
Now you see the problem. One lt. is a Ringwraith, one is a corrupted man (but not a Ringwraith), and one's race is not given. This is the conclusion of every Gothmog discussion that comes about. I think he's a man on account of Tolkien not stating he was a Nazgul, but that's all the basis I have. Search to see more - this has been done quite a few times. [ July 07, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]
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07-09-2003, 05:02 PM | #16 |
Haunting Spirit
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Ijust heard an interesting theory about Gothmog from a guy called Inderjit Sanghera on msn. He said that Gothmog is the same as the mouth of Sauron with the following argument: "Gothmog renders the name voice of morgoth in Sindarin, Sauron claimed he was morgoth in the t.a. therefore he could be interpreted as the voice of morgoth." This is an interesting theory built upon a purely linguistical reasoning which sounds like Tolkien, but the inconsistensies are many. For example that he was the lieutenant of Morgul and not Barad Dūr, that eh had a name and so on. But I must admit, it was quite an impressive theory to come up with.
Måns
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07-09-2003, 07:56 PM | #17 |
Hungry Ghoul
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Two things have to be noted:
I am not an Elvish language expert, but I am unaware that the meaning of Gothmog can be rendered as 'voice of Morgoth'. From the Etymologies in HoME V, reflecting the status of the Elven languages at the time of the writing of LotR, the name can be translated from the two stems GOS-, GOTH "dread. Q osse terror, as name Osse. Cf. Mandos (see MBAD). N has Oeros for Osse (*Goss). Cf. Taur-os [TAWAR]. N gost dread, terror; gosta- fear exceedingly; cf. Gothrog = Dread Demon [RUK]; Gothmog [MBAW]. Gostir 'dread glance', dragon-name [THE]." (HoME V Etym.) and MBAW- "compel, force, subject, oppress. Q mauya- compel; mausta compulsion; maure need. N baug tyrannous, cruel, oppressive; bauglo to oppress; bauglir tyrant, oppressor; bui (*mauy-) (impersonal), baur need. Cf. Gothmog (*Gothombauk-) [GOS]." (ibid.) Even if you equate S./N. bauglir with Morgoth, the name would only mean something like 'dread of Morgoth'. Much more importantly, LotR states the following: "The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dūr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it" (LotR V, 10). This logically also excludes the possibility that Gothmog was not the Mouth's real, original name, but only a (later) title. Had it been that, it would have been remembered in the very same tale in which he appears. |
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