Sharing the Psychosis?

[Bill Ferny]

Middle Earth has been the hot topic in my house for the last couple of months. Spurred by the movies, my purchase a few months of ago of UT, and my wife’s re-reading of LotRs (she read it when she was seven! but forgot most of it). My wife is a C.S. Lewis and fairy tale fanatic with a passing interest in the LotRs. However, she’s been reading this forum lately, perhaps curious about what’s been absorbing so much of my time this past month and a half.

A couple of nights ago, she read a passage by Tolkien from the UT: “Who was ‘Gandalf’?… I do not (of course) know the truth of the matter, and if I did it would be a mistake to be more explicit than Gandalf was.” She said that Tolkien wrote like he actually believed that Gandalf and Middle Earth really existed. She then pointed out a number of posts from this forum, and said, its like all of you really believe that Middle Earth existed. I have to admit that a thread I recently started is a rather serious discussion about the biological and ontological nature of half-orcs and the uruk-hai.

I replied: “Well, Tolkien did create a world that had a history, a background, a feeling of reality. He was one of the first, if not the very first, to take fairy tale to fantasy world. What he created sometimes feels like you could actually walk into it. Could you create something like that if part of you didn’t believe in what you were writing?”

She asked: “Then he did believe in it?”

I replied: “Maybe. At least a part of him. And for me to feel like I could walk into that world, maybe a part of me believes in it too, or at least wants to.”

She responded: “Then what you are telling me is, is that all of you have adopted JRR Tolkien’s psychosis.”

I answered: “Well… ok… Yeah! So what?”

She just raised her eyebrow and gave me that too familiar skeptical look (not that I don’t deserve that look most of the time). So, I suppose that on some level Tolkien was a bit crazy, at least in regard to Middle Earth, and so, maybe, am I.

I can’t think of any other work of literature that has absorbed so much of my time, spurred so much curiosity and imagination, or made me think as much as LotRs has, except the bible or perhaps the Summa Theologia (though the later is probably only a close runner with LotRs). Only one other modern writer, Etienne Gilson, inspires as much devotion from me as Tolkien does. I’ve only read one other series of fantasy novels in the past ten years or so, and that was Harry Potter, and aside from Beowulf and Jane Austin, I don’t think I’ve read much fiction of my own choosing, outside of college courses, during my whole adult life. Of course, I read all kinds of stuff during my high school years, like Lewis and others (and I admit that I read most of Louis Lamour’s corpus back then [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] ), but pretty much my fiction yen and yang has been Tolkien ever since seventh grade when my best friend suggested that I buy the LotRs paperbacks.

So am I a helpless Tolkien psychotic? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

[Evisse the Blue]

Yes, you are but don't be sad! Rejoice! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

LOL - the conversation between you and your wife painfully reminded me of Mulder and Scully's banter.yes, i was a fan...

What you said about Tolkien believing this stuff - I think that any writer more or less does. And if he suceeds in making us believe in it too, than his task is really done. I personally like to think that all the writers have 'antennae' to capture messages from other worlds and Tolkien's were longer and had the greatest transmission.

Don't think UFOs now, that was just a metaphor. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[hobbitlass]

That is what I love most about being here. The sharing of this psychosis.
My husband doesn't understand either. He has no idea the depths this surrealism is for me. Sometimes a little bit slips and he looks at me funny but it is him that I pity.
I am a grown-up but I relish the fact that I have been able to keep a part of that child-hood that can suspend hard-fact realism for at least part of the time and in some situations. Does that mean I am not responsible? Heck no, I raise children, pay bills and be a part of the society that I live in.
I love to forget this time and place that I live in for something a little more simple and adventerous. And the ones who benefit the most are my children.
Everyday dragons and butterflies and all sorts of creatures follow us to school, some bad and some good. Some I make up, some they make up.
If thinking of the hobbit lifestyle makes me want to plant a garden and gives me a renewed and fresh approach to the mundane task of making 3 meals (thank heavens not 6) a day so what! Or thinking about elves and their love of nature has me getting off the couch for a walk, that's great.
And you know, it doesn't have to be Tolkien's work. I think anyone who has an inspiration somewhere that brings a bit of "magic" and joy into their life is a good thing.
I guess what I am saying is that yes Middle-Earth is real. And it is right here *points to heart*.

[Arwen1858]

Yes, you have whatever Tolkien had, but so do I , and all the other people who love the books enough to frequent a message board dedicated to them!! I feel like ME and everything in it actually exsisted, and sometimes I forget that it didn't! I want to be able to write like that, where those who read my books feel as if they're reading about real people who actually exsisted ages ago. That's the feeling I get reading Tolkien's books. He not only wrote the story, he wrote a whole history of Middle Earth! He was truly a genius. I definatly have whatever psychosis you and Tolkien have!
Arwen

[Neferchoirwen]

Everyone who enjoyed the books has it. Each time I read, I ache for Middle Earth to exist---and often I am not content to believe that it just exists in my heart.
I sometimes refuse to believe that it's just in my heart.

Actually, I believe that the only way to keep me sane is to go to this place. I can't vent out on wnyone anymore, as my friends have had enough to the extent that may have lost their curiosity for reading (I partly doubt that, though).

I'm relatively a newbie when it comes to reading LotR. However, my interest and zeal makes me a worthy psychotic nonetheless.

[Diamond18]

Yes, you have psychosis! Isn't it wonderful? Life without some insanity is so boring. Humans everywhere have an obsession with fiction (every culture has its stories, myths, etc.) We here on the Downs have made it into a fine science!

Middle-earth grew and changed over Tolkien's whole life, so you could say Middle-earth was real because it was so much a part of Tolkien, that it was just as real as he was. Does that make any sense?

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I guess what I am saying is that yes Middle-Earth is real. And it is right here *points to heart*.

Yes!!! You have stated this so well!!!
Middle Earth is not somewhere that we believe we can go to by train or bus, it's just someplace that exists in our dreams and hearts. It helps me through the day a lot. I am so surrounded by filth and crazy city life that I just like to take myself to somewhere different where I can dance in fields and sing in another language. Some of my friends think I am weird, but they accept my love of Tolkien's works. It is true that no other piece of literature has affected me this way... but I am forever grateful that I picked up the books and read them because my outlook on life has changed much since then. I see more beauty in life & I catch the small wonders of everyday living.

[Susan Delgado]

There was an RPG once that dealth with just this matter. In it, the modern world had some sort of universal disaster (it was never specified, but I always thought it was a Nuclear War) and a small group of people were brought to Middle Earth and had to figure out how to survive in this very different place.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Bill Ferny,

I held my sides and laughed when I read your post. I certainly sypathize with your predicament because I have had similar conversations with my dear husband! Yes, it is very hard to be on the outside looking in and understand what's going on. This gives me an idea for a thread.......

Hobbitlass,

I think you have put into words what many of us feel. I think we also need to remember what Tolkien himself said about his work. He never said it was a "real place" but, time and time again, he stated that he was not inventing things in his head. He was merely revealing something that was already there.

There's a famous quote about this which is one of my very favorites in the Letters. A "well known" person visited JRRT and was struck by the "curious way in which many old picures seeme to him to have been designed to illustrate The Lord of the Rings long before its time." Tolkien assured him that could not have been so, since he had little acquaintance with such pictorial art. This is what Tolkien said happened next:

When it became obvious that, unless I was a liar, I had never seen the pictures before..., he fell silent. I became aware that he was staring fixedly at me. Suddenly he said: 'Of course you don't suppose, do you, that you wrote all that book yourself?'

Poor Gandalf! I was too well acquainted with G. to expose myself rashly, or to ask what he meant. I think I said: 'No, I don't suppose so any longer.' I have never been able to suppose so. An alarming conclusion for an old philologist to draw concerning his private amusements. But not one that should puff up any one who considers the imperfections of 'chosen instruments', and indeed what sometimes seems their lamentable unfitness for the purpose. (Autumn 1971)

So, on at least some level, by the end of his life, JRRT felt that the "truth" of his writings came to him from outside his own head, and that it came to him for a real reason and purpose.

One of Tolkien's letter writers mentioned "a sanity and sanctity in the L.R. which is a power in itself." To me, these two words, 'sanity' and 'sanctity', sum up what I most love in Tolkien's writings. There is a sense of order in the here and now, a life which has reason and meaning, even in the little things, like cooking meals or making friends. And then, too, there is that feeling of 'sanctity', of something beyond myself and my little concerns, something that transcends the earthly, which I keep banging up against in these books.

This 'sanity and sanctity' make his world personally compelling. Bill Ferny,, since you say your wife loves Lewis, perhaps you could explain it to her this way. In Surprised by Joy, Lewis speaks of the moments of wonder in this world which are a genuine reflection of some strange beauty that lies beyond, those greater things that we can't feel or touch, but which are actually more real than the so-called "real" things of life.

To me, Tolkien is like this. At the very best and highest, his words reflect a beauty which I can only half glimpse where I am today. But when I read his books, I know those truths lay out there, and I am grateful that he has given me a small glimpse of them. Perhaps someday I'll see more.

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[TolkienGurl]

Now it isn't necessarily psychosis... well, OK we're all crazy! but its good to be crazy, right?

I think Tolkien has created a kind of "roleplaying" world from which we can escape this one and pretend to be someone else for a while, or be ourselves in another world. Its actually quite healthy to be like this, as long as someone is not really crazy and obsessed. Its a way of coping with stress everything else in life, kind of our little "haven".

[Arwen1858]

but its good to be crazy, right?

I certainly think so!! I like what you said about it being a 'haven.' That's how I feel, too!
Arwen

oh... This post got me promoted! I'm a Wight now!!!!

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: Arwen1858 ]

[Neferchoirwen]

Ahhh...this thread serves as a place of solace for me. I was thinking that I was going insane if ever I read FotR further...the more I read, the more edgy I get. But if I stop reading, I feel like a part of me is fading away: proof that Middle Earth does exist in my own heart.

Life without some insanity is so boring

That knocked into my senses: Our own little insanities are what defines us. Middle Earth is creating its home in me (thus the psychosis).

Child, that quote was amusing. I remember Tirned Tinnu saying that we are all connected, at a certain level, with our own thougths. I guess have all tapped into Tolkien's own.

And at this point, this is how I see myself as well:

There is a sense of order in the here and now, a life which has reason and meaning, even in the little things, like cooking meals or making friends. And then, too, there is that feeling of 'sanctity', of something beyond myself and my little concerns, something that transcends the earthly, which I keep banging up against in these books.

right on, Child!

[Taure Leafsilver]

Yes insanity, my only saftey, for in this world nothing is safe..........yup I'm insane alright! That made no sense. LOTR insanitey is a good thing ,yes! To me is very real. Somtimes when walking in the woods i feel if I walk far enough I'll reach Rivendell, or the Shire.

[Guinevere]

I have read all of these posts with much pleasure and appreciation! Most of you have already expressed just what I feel and think myself, so I can only add that I am certainly one who shares in this "psychosis", if you choose to call this secondary reality such.

At least I can share this enthusiasm with my 16 year old son; my husband, sadly, never reads any fiction, let alone fantasy. (But he bears patiently with all this talk about middle-earth that never stops since more than a year...) However,I am happy to have discovered the Barrowdowns where I meet so many kindred spirits!

I feel that reading LotR gives me just these things that Tolkien himself called the main functions of fairy-stories:
"Fantasy, recovery, escape and consolation"
(In Tolkiens essay "On Fairy-Stories" there is so much truth and wisdom to be found!)

But I don`t deem this an unhealthy escapism from reality- the experience of this secondary world that seems so real and yet timeless enriches my real life and has brought me not only joy but insight.

I love knowing that there are so many of you out there that have been touched by a place so wonderful. I often wish I could live in such a world and see such incredible things. Tolkien has reached a part of us that yearns for something better, and I often find myself longing to be a part of this world. Keep daydreaming and keep reading. Feed your visions daily and never let them lose clarity, and you will always have a place of your own to create what you will. Yeah, I guess we are all a little psychotic, but then some of us need a place that will remain untouched and unspoilt.

[Neferchoirwen]

Wow. A "coming out" thread...if you get my meaning. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[TolkienGurl]

Galadhrion - Welcome to the Downs! I, too, wish that I lived in Middle-earth! It would be so cool... *spends the rest of the day day-dreaming* [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Evisse the Blue]

In Surprised by Joy, Lewis speaks of the moments of wonder in this world which are a genuine reflection of some strange beauty that lies beyond, those greater things that we can't feel or touch, but which are actually more real than the so-called "real" things of life.

Kinda like Rimbaud - 'True life is elsewhere'. This sure is the impression of geniuses, and of all beauty -lovers.

[HerenIstarion]

So am I a helpless Tolkien psychotic?

you are (I hope). So am I (I hope)

and I hope I don't sound like some affiliate of a secret clique saluting fellow conspirator. (I hope)

and, though admittedly psychotic, I hope I make some sense (I hope)

[Harmonica]

I do believe that what we call Fantasy worlds are actually real in some ways. As some of you already said, it is real in the heart. But also, there are spirit worlds and other dimensions that we sometimes can get a glimpse of or step into by accident. I believe that sometimes sensitive and imaginative people like authors and film directors are sort of channeling those worlds in to their mind and in their own way show them to the rest of us. If I didn´t have that hope that those worlds exist and if I didn´t have the Fantasy worlds to live in, I would not last in the "real" world, cause it´s so difficult to live here at times.

[Neferchoirwen]

This psychosis that we all share is an escape, for fear of not surviving in the real world.

But no matter how crazy we percieve ourselves to be, we sure are pruod to be preoccupied in something bigger than us.

The more psychotic I am (in a descent sense), the more I realize that ME is REAL.

[Arwen1858]

This psychosis that we all share is an escape, for fear of not surviving in the real world.

Yet one of the many cool things is that we can learn something about our world. We can learn about strength, honor, courage, loyalty, friendship, love, devotion, the list could go on and on! So while escaping the 'real world,' we are still learning how to cope and survive in it. I hope this made sense and said what I meant to!!
Arwen

[ October 31, 2002: Message edited by: Arwen1858 ]

[Guinevere]

Yes, Arwen, you have expressed it very well!
I agree completely with you. It is this what makes Tolkiens works so timeless.

[elfling]

Yes I share the psychosis. And boy am I glad i found this place. (The Downs and you guys) The books are real to me in a way and i constantly think about them and the characters. They have become friends almost. I am also glad to here from husbands and wives who have partners who may not share their psychosis but atleast tolerate it. I feel frustrated sometimes without a friend who is as into JRRT as I. Many think it is silly or strange but then go on talking about Survivor or the Bachlor for hours and I know my obsession is atleast positive, compared the theirs. It is great to be able to get here and discuss what i have come to love so much with ohters who understand. And yes, I still work, pay bills,raise my child, and take care of my family but tonight I may dress-up when I take my littleone out trick or treating. This is a good thing, I think. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone.

[TolkienGurl]

I also feel a kinship with the characters of LOTR(especially the Hobbits). Its almost like I'm there with them, going through the same trials and tribulations.

[Sapphire_Flame]

Don't worry, in this case, psychosis is a good thing! In all honesty, I believe that Middle-earth was (is) a real place, if only in our hearts and minds. It gives you an escape from the doldrums of everyday life and a chance to go on your own adventure with the Fellowship. I personally feel that I can really connect with the characters; they all seem so real and present, I can imagine the whole story playing itself out in my mind, with me right there every step of the way. It presents strong, important lessons that can be interpretted in hundreds of different ways for as many situations in real life.

I'm relatively new to the LotR fan circle. I do get radically offended when someone is unable to appriciate this great work. I think the reason that some people are unable to become immersed in Middle-earth is that they are too real, if you follow me. They can't comprehend something as complex and fantastical as the Trilogy. And, to be perfectly honest, I pity the people who can't.

[Neferchoirwen]

Ha [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I tend to get there too...which also proves my psychotic self. But I truly pity those who bash something without even seeing it for themselves, blah blah.

But believe it or not, after seeing a few paintings of LotR by a Tolkien artist, I have been seeing FotR in my minds eye as I read them in animation form. The Hobbits look perfectly cute, bt Aragorn still retains the Viggo Mortensen face.

I guess it's Providence's way of keeping me from having too much ME dreams...
[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Lindril Arvilya]

Some people are simply touched by Tolkien's works. That's the reason we cry when we read the books or watch the movie. That's the reason we destest Saruman for his treachery and cheer Frodo on his "lost cause". These characters, these people are very, very real to us. Tolkien has succeeded in "creating" a place that echoes within us, people who remind us of ourselves, and gods who give us a clue to our own spirituality. How many of you have ever thought "Oh Elbereth! Gilthoniel!" when in trouble?
For people like that, Middle-Earth has ceased to be a fiction, and become very real history for us. We can remember more of Melkor and Gil-galad than we can of our own world's histories. And perhaps, that's ok. Because as long as we're rooting for the good guys, as long as we're using their sacrifices to aid us in our own little (and big) struggles, then I think we're on the right track.

[TolkienGurl]

Actually, LOTR is not a trilogy. It is one novel sometimes sold in three separate books. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

And I am definitely 'psychotic' about all of Tolkien's books. I think I've read The Hobbit three times and LOTR four times, but I'm not exactly sure. Even though that doesn't seem like a lot, I am a good reader so I pick up much in books that others miss.

I just started reading Tom Shippey's book: J.R.R. Tolkien Author of the Century. I love to learn all I can about Middle-earth. A lot of people think I'm obsessed and crazy, which I am, but its not a bad thing. You've got to have at least a little craziness in your life or its just plain boring!

[Arwen1858]

You've got to have at least a little craziness in your life or its just plain boring!

I totally agree with you there, TolkienGurl!! In fact, I've said the very thing myself [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Mintyztwin]

Yay! I'm not the only insane one here! Sometimes I worry that I'm the only one that lives the books! They are so completely real to me. When I read them, it's like THEY are reality and my life is a dream. And even when I finish (always with tears.) I still walk around in a middle earth fog. I can almost hear the sounds of Elvish singing, and dwarven hammers ringing.
But eventually reality creeps in. And my mum says I am too obsessed with it. But then I read the books again, and everything else fades away. It's like looking at a mirror. (To use a C.S. Lewis expression.) When you catch a glimpse of the outdoors in a mirror, and it seems more vibrant, colorful alive! LotR is like that, I guess. It holds up a mirror to my life, and is more, more, real. In ME you are what you are. You're either good, or bad. Instead of mostly gray. And if you're good you'll fight for the right. It applies real well to life. You must fight for the right, even when all else is lost.

Thanks for listening to my rambling!

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Mintyztwin ]

[Bill Ferny]

There is a sense of order in the here and now, a life which has reason and meaning, even in the little things, like cooking meals or making friends.

That hits the nail on the head, Child. Contained in the story is a summary of the human condition, the nobility of the human person, and the purpose of the human race. Amid sadness, suffering, and doubt, there is something in the spirit that drives one to embrace our nobility and strive for that which is beyond our mere condition.

We are all a curious, and clumsy Bilbo; we are all a Frodo, weighed down by the cares of the world and wounded by evil; we are all a Boromir, struggling between our weaknesses and our strengths; etc. etc. etc.

Tolkien was not just an author, a writer of books and quaint stories destined to be slapped between gaudy covers with catchy phrases. He was a bard who weaved in some mysterious way threads of magic into his labor. His words go beyond the mental, traverse the emotional, and they touch that which resides the deepest in our nature. And he did it without trying. There are many who are called artists, but there are very few artists like Tolkien.

[Neferchoirwen]

up, first of all.

Visited this thread once again. I admit that I am loosing sense of my psychotic self...and therefore feeling a need to go back to those magical pages once more to make the gallant nine (as I love to call them) come to live in my heart with more understanding than when I first read it).

I'd love to quote Bill Ferny's last post but I'd rather have others respond to the topic at hand.

enjoy the psychosis, everyone!

~nef

[ August 05, 2003: Message edited by: Neferchoirwen ]

[Mariska Greenleaf]

I've read some very funny and recognisable stuff here, and because I feel the same way about getting insane (or being insane), I felt like I had to post something here...

Most people around me have no idea what is going through my mind most of the day. ME does exist,it does. In my heart, in my dreams. Sometimes though, it is difficult to get back into the real world, you know? I'm really enjoying myself making up stories and reading the books and watching the movies, I feel happy with that, although I can't really share it with anyone. Now lately, it is getting more and more difficult to get back in the real world.
I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about!
Anyway, to be honest, it kinda scares me. All the time my family and friends call me crazy, and I used to laugh at it, but well, I'm kinda worried right now.
Oh well, probably worrying for nothing, when I read about what others on this forum feel like, I know I'm not alone, and that is really comforting...

[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[Elennar Starfire]

Like my old siggy said, too much sanity is bad for your mental health. So, yes, being slightly crazy is a good thing. And it's fun!

[Neferchoirwen]

Anyway, to be honest, it kinda scares me. All the time my family and friends call me crazy, and I used to laugh at it, but well, I'm kinda worried

Mariska: Have they seen the movies at least? Maybe that would help.

Since the topic is about sharing the psychosis, it is hard not to share it with anyone indeed. In light of that, the Downs souldbe able to help you. I'm a frustrated Tolkien lover in desperate need of someone to share the psychosis with in the flesh: my sister is sick and tired of my [needless] but compulsive sommentary while watching the dvd.

It's a bane we all have, init? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Kaiserin]

Psychosis... guess we have a lot of terms for our, er, predicament (like "obsession", or "lifestyle" or "hobby"... Oh, deliver us!)
I sometimes feel it's nice to be slightly schizophrenic and melancholic at times. It keeps me from going insane when I have a "virtual place of retreat". I mean, it can't be that harmful, can it?

[ August 07, 2003: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]

[Mariska Greenleaf]

Mariska: Have they seen the movies at least? Maybe that would help.

They have seen the movies, and they like it, but just like they like other movies. Nothing special. Somehow, they don't seem to get the magic. But maybe that's because they have never read the books, I dunno. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ August 07, 2003: Message edited by: Mariska Greenleaf ]

[HerenIstarion]

Many new mentals around. Share you Psychoses

[Evisse the Blue]

Now lately, it is getting more and more difficult to get back in the real world.

I feel the same way. It's like having double personality or something... You grab the books, you log on the BD, you let the insanity unravel. You log off, you turn your psychosis off. Only it's not as easy as it sounds. No precious, it isn't.