The Girdle of Melian - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aiwendil · 03-25-2003, 09:55 PM

I've recently become a bit confused about the extent of the Girdle of Melian. Does it include Arthorien/Ridhrim, the small part of Beleriand between Aros and Celon in the east?

On the one hand, there are references to the Girdle protecting "Neldoreth and Region" which would seem to exclude Arthorien. Also, the Aros is frequently talked about in a general way as being the border of Doriath on the eastern side.

However, on the map in HoMe XI, there is a dotted line extending from Aros to Celon in the north, and Christopher interprets this as an extension of the Girdle of Melian. This would imply that Arthorien is in fact within the Girdle.

I suppose one could say that since Nivrim (the west march) is within the Girdle, the "Neldoreth and Region" phrase is not to be taken strictly. Nonetheless, a single dotted line (especially amid the whole Dwarf road confusion) is very little evidence.

A minor point, I know, but I'm still very interested to here people's opinions.

Bruce MacCulloch · 03-26-2003, 02:24 AM

I would have to say that one's decision on the extent of the Girdle would hinge on the acceptance of Christopher's interpretation of said dotted line. Personally, I'm a bit 'iffy' on it.

[ March 26, 2003: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]

**lindil** · 03-26-2003, 06:12 AM

I came up agaist the same confusion on the Aelin-uial entry.

Some references seemed to place it on the borders, some within, some less likely.

No help, only commiseration.

I did hover find a detail re: Curufin and the pass of Aglon that had been overlooked [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] .

Iarhen · 03-26-2003, 08:51 AM

I dont know if Im confused, but I remember that there was a part were Sauron's spells and the Girdle of Melian met, and Tolkien says that its a wild and weird land.

Why? Do you know what were the characteristics of that frontier that scared travellers so much?

Findegil · 03-26-2003, 02:27 PM

When I remeber rightly, than lived in Arthorien mostly Elves of Nandorin origin who after the Battle under the Stars and the death of thier ruler denethor searched the security of Doriath. If that is true, then it seems necessary for me that the Girdle of Melian included Arthoriath, becuase other weise the Nandorin-Elves would have settled further away from the not protected border.
There were alway not protected marches of Doriath: Dimbar and Brethil for example. But I don't think Arothiach was one of these.

Respectfully
Findegil

03-25-2003, 09:55 PM	#1
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	The Girdle of Melian I've recently become a bit confused about the extent of the Girdle of Melian. Does it include Arthorien/Ridhrim, the small part of Beleriand between Aros and Celon in the east? On the one hand, there are references to the Girdle protecting "Neldoreth and Region" which would seem to exclude Arthorien. Also, the Aros is frequently talked about in a general way as being the border of Doriath on the eastern side. However, on the map in HoMe XI, there is a dotted line extending from Aros to Celon in the north, and Christopher interprets this as an extension of the Girdle of Melian. This would imply that Arthorien is in fact within the Girdle. I suppose one could say that since Nivrim (the west march) is within the Girdle, the "Neldoreth and Region" phrase is not to be taken strictly. Nonetheless, a single dotted line (especially amid the whole Dwarf road confusion) is very little evidence. A minor point, I know, but I'm still very interested to here people's opinions.

03-26-2003, 02:24 AM	#2
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 651	I would have to say that one's decision on the extent of the Girdle would hinge on the acceptance of Christopher's interpretation of said dotted line. Personally, I'm a bit 'iffy' on it. [ March 26, 2003: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ] __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

03-26-2003, 06:12 AM	#3
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	I came up agaist the same confusion on the Aelin-uial entry. Some references seemed to place it on the borders, some within, some less likely. No help, only commiseration. I did hover find a detail re: Curufin and the pass of Aglon that had been overlooked [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] . __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-26-2003, 08:51 AM	#4
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	I dont know if Im confused, but I remember that there was a part were Sauron's spells and the Girdle of Melian met, and Tolkien says that its a wild and weird land. Why? Do you know what were the characteristics of that frontier that scared travellers so much? __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.

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03-26-2003, 02:27 PM	#5
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	When I remeber rightly, than lived in Arthorien mostly Elves of Nandorin origin who after the Battle under the Stars and the death of thier ruler denethor searched the security of Doriath. If that is true, then it seems necessary for me that the Girdle of Melian included Arthoriath, becuase other weise the Nandorin-Elves would have settled further away from the not protected border. There were alway not protected marches of Doriath: Dimbar and Brethil for example. But I don't think Arothiach was one of these. Respectfully Findegil