The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2014, 05:11 PM   #1
Arathorn111
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21
Arathorn111 has just left Hobbiton.
Why did Sauron fear Aragons coronation?

Correct me if I'm wrong, or if have drawn to much from the movies as I have lost my (digital) copy of the trilogi, and the Silmarillon.

Gandalf says something like (and I'm pretty sure I'm qutoing, incorrectly, the movies here) "Sauron would rather raise Minas Tirith than see a king upon its throne." And Aragorn uses the palantiri to lure Sauron into attacking Minas Tirith before he is ready.

But what does Saouron fear? That Aragon has the ring? (as Aragorn is using the same palantiri as Pippin, who Sauron suspects have the ring).
Or that Gondor can withstand Mordor if they are but lead by a king?
Or that Aragorn will unite Gondor, Rohan and the remains of Arnor?
Or that he will unite all the enemies of Mordor, elves, dwarfs, men of dale and so on?
Arathorn111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 05:46 PM   #2
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,037
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.
I think that's Peter Jackson "I can make boring 'ol Tolkien better"™ revision.

In The Two Towers book Aragorn does say that to have realized that an Heir of Isildur was still living "was a blow to [Sauron's] heart".

Sauron naturally would have been shocked to discover that. His attention had been on Minas Tirith for so long that to have such an unexpected revelation threw him into turmoil. He had not forgotten that his previous defeat was at the hands of Isildur, and to have even "his" Palantr, with which he had confused or dominated two of his chief enemies having its link broken to the Orthanc-stone by the Heir filled him with fear. He was mainly worried, I think, that Aragorn would indeed claim the Ring, since in Sauron's mind someone so great could hardly resist it for long. Sauron may have even doubted that he could have recovered it from Aragorn forcibly (though I'm fairly certain he could have).
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 06:18 PM   #3
The Squatter of Amon Rdh
Spectre of Decay
 
The Squatter of Amon Rdh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bar-en-Danwedh
Posts: 2,178
The Squatter of Amon Rdh is a guest at the Prancing Pony.The Squatter of Amon Rdh is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Send a message via AIM to The Squatter of Amon Rdh
Pipe

Aragorn's guess is that Sauron fears Isildur's heir and the sword of Elendil as powerful adversaries, knowing that he's reached a critical point in his plans:
Quote:
To know that I lived and walked the earth was a blow to his heart, I deem; for he knew it not till now... Sauron has not forgotten Isildur and the sword of Elendil. Now in the very hour of his great designs the heir of Isildur and the Sword are revealed; for I showed the blade re-forged to him. He is not so mighty that he is above fear; nay, doubt ever gnaws at him

The Passing of the Grey Company
I can't remember very much about the film universe, but if it does make the title a matter of fear rather than the man or the sword then it's a strange divergence from Tolkien, who places far more emphasis on personal worth than aristocratic rank. In the book, Sauron fears Aragorn, heir of Isildur, not the King of Gondor. Aragorn deliberately plays on this fear and doubt when he leads an army to the Morannon to draw Sauron's attention away from Frodo and Sam. The heir of Isildur is a likely candidate to take up the Ring against Sauron, and his leading a pitifully small army against Mordor is what Sauron would expect of a powerful leader falling under the Ring's domination.
__________________
Man kenuva mtim' andne?
The Squatter of Amon Rdh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 06:40 PM   #4
cellurdur
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
cellurdur has just left Hobbiton.
Well Sauron has a great deal of hatred for Luthien's descedants as a whole. This is further increased by the Numenoreans stopping him in the Second Age. More fuel is added to the fire when the Numenoreans give him a humiliating defeat under Ar-pharazon. Then Elendil makes the last alliance and plays a big part in personally killing his body. Lastly to add insult to the wound Isildur takes his ring. So purely from a personal point he would be angry to find out that a descendant of Isildur still lived.

The other thing that would greatly worry him is the Heir of Isildur claiming the One Ring. Technically Aragorn has a legal right to the ring, which even Frodo acknowledges at the Council of Elrond. Whilst Aragorn has no possible hope of ever defeating Sauron in a personal battle, there is a chance he could unite the armies of the West against Sauron. He may even be able to gain the Black Numenoreans to his side. With such military power, just like the Numenoreans did, Aragorn could defeat Sauron's armies.

The last reason is that it is still a huge boost for the men of Gondor and strikes fear into the orcs. As Boromir put it the 'sword of Elendil would be a help beyond hope.' Similarly I think it would be a huge blow to the elves to see Narsil reforged.
cellurdur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 07:05 PM   #5
Arathorn111
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21
Arathorn111 has just left Hobbiton.
I considered Aragorn himself and the sword of Elendil as great enemies of Sauron, however I felt that that was more dangerous to Sauron himself than to his armies. Of course it would cause fear among his armies but the differnence between Aragorn as king and Aragorn as "simply" the heir of Elendil would be small. However the stoming of Minas Tirith might just as well be to stop Aragorn from taking command of Gondors armies.
Arathorn111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 07:17 PM   #6
Zigr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
Zigr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Yes this would be a classic case of where the film attributes significance to the wrong things for no essential narrative reason, which I think is one of the major pieces of evidence that the screenwriters literally didn't understand the words on the page. Sauron feared Aragorn and the Sword of Elendil mostly because he thought that Aragorn had the Ring - the Heir of Elendil with the Ring might be a formidable opponent militarily.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried omer.
Zigr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 10:56 PM   #7
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,411
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
I think that a big part of Sauron's fear after the Palantir "conversation" was that he wat defeated in a battle of wills/minds by Aragorn. If being the heir of Isildur, a charismatic leader of Numenorian descent, and owner of Anduril and potentially of the Ring is not enough, this little trick does it. I imagine Sauron was seriously freaking out after a "mere mortal" beat him like that in his own field.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:23 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.