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08-02-2012, 12:16 PM | #1 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Sauron's loyalty after the First Age
Hello, having introduced myself in the Newcomers thread I thought I might bring up an issue which I have been musing upon for a while. The gist of it is this: what are your opinions on Sauron's loyalty after the First Age? Was he still devoted to Morgoth or was he pursuing his own agenda?
The reason I ask is that I see a lot of threads on forums around the internet with notions like "why Sauron stayed loyal after Morgoth's defeat", "would he try to bring Morgoth back somehow" and the like, but I felt that a lot of these rely on the assumption that Sauron particularly cared that his former master was gone. The confusion seems to primarily lie with Sauron's establishment of the Melkor-worshipping religion in Nśmenor. I personally have always viewed Sauron as a complete opportunist. He was, according to Morgoth's Ring, seduced to Morgoth's side because of Morgoth's apparent efficiency and decisiveness (compared to the Valar). By the Second Age, in Nśmenor, this ruthless pragmatism of Sauron's which Morgoth exploited had effectively gone full circle; it would seem to me that his establishment of Melkor-worship derived not from any genuine sense of reverence for his exiled master but purely out of convenience: "Sauron, apparently a defeated rival for world-power, now a mere hostage, can hardly propound himself; but as the former servant and disciple of Melkor, the worship of Melkor will raise him from hostage to high priest." (Morgoth's Ring again) What do you think? While I do believe that Sauron's pursuit of his particular agenda caused him to ultimately, subconsciously, propagate the cause of the ongoing malice of Morgoth imbued as it was in the very substance of Middle-earth itself, I believe this was in the purely conceptual, metaphysical sense of "Morgoth" as it had come to exist as the general presence of evil potency in Arda, not in the fulfilment of the deliberate will of Melkor-Morgoth in actuality as a person or individual. Nor do I believe that any of his schemes, including the destruction of Nśmenor, the forging of the Rings or any of his other policies were enacted out of any deliberate continued loyalty on Sauron's part to Morgoth the person, who was exiled seemingly permanently from Arda and whose absence elevated Sauron from second-in-command to potentially complete primary lordship. How do you view the matter? |
08-02-2012, 02:33 PM | #2 | ||||
Laconic Loreman
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Hello Zigur, welcome to the Barrow-downs. A highly interesting thread topic, and much of what you say is what I think as well.
"Opportunist" is a good word to use for Sauron. I can't track down the precsie reference at the moment, but Sauron first was drawn to Melkor's service because of Melkor's power and the expediency he was able to enact his plans. Morgoth seemed the "I want this now" Dark-Lord, where Sauron was more calculated and thoughtful: Quote:
Eventually, Morgoth starts slipping into nihilism, where all he cares about is complete and utter destruction. Morgoth, being unable to control becomes like an 8-yo having a temper tantrum. "Fine, if I can't have it my way, I'm just going to trash the place." He recklessly throws in armies and spends resources, because all he wants total destruction. On the other hand, Sauron never falls to nihilism: Quote:
As far as the Melkor-religion he was creating in Numenor. Again, this is, I feel, Sauron just being an opportunist: Quote:
Quote:
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Last edited by Boromir88; 08-02-2012 at 04:00 PM. |
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08-02-2012, 09:43 PM | #3 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,402
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I second Boro, this is a very interesting topic.
I agree with what has been said, and "opportunist" seems quite a fitting word to describe Sauron. It's really not that difficult a choice for him: either you work hard to do the near-impossible of bringing your old master back, or you become the big bad bully yourself. Knowing Sauron's lust for power, his choice is clear. I doubt he ever felt any devotion to Morgoth beyond the basic "while he's there he gives me power" feeling. So I doubt Sauron had any great loyalty in the first place. I like the sound of the idea that Sauron's Morgoth cult is really subconsciously worshiping "Morgoth's Ring", not the individual himself.
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08-03-2012, 12:24 AM | #4 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 78
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Read the wikipedia article on Sauron and you would know his loyalty. It's quite obvious actually, obviously he is loyal to Melkor.
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08-03-2012, 01:33 AM | #5 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Wikipedia's articles on Sauron and Morgoth actually contributed to my motivation towards contemplating this topic. Once upon a time (before I edited it actually) the article on Morgoth claimed that Sauron stayed loyal to Morgoth after the First Age but gave no evidence from Professor Tolkien's own writing to support this assertion. Indeed almost all of the evidence which I mentioned from "Myths Transformed" along with the note from Letter 183, both of which were kindly provided in detail by Boromir88, would suggest to me that after the War of Wrath Sauron was pursuing his own agenda. Morgoth had become, more or less, irrelevant beyond being a phantom from Sauron's personal history he could use to corrupt the Nśmenoreans and other Men he duped into perceiving him as a divinity.
While I believe that Sauron was indeed loyal to Morgoth in the First Age, and was motivated to this allegiance initially due to admiration for Morgoth's ambition and wilfulness and later because being Morgoth's second-in-command was a position of enormous authority he could never have achieved on his own given the circumstances of the First Age, I don't believe that loyalty persisted after Morgoth's exile. This quote from Morgoth's Ring seems pertinent: Quote:
I think by and large the confusion that his loyalty was more enduring seems to derive from a misinterpretation of the events of the Akallabźth. As for this "bringing Morgoth back" idea, I'm pretty sure that's just a silly notion I read somewhere with no basis whatsoever in the Professor's writing, and possibly derives from a desire some might have for Tolkien's world to be more like the heavily serialised Fantasy sagas of more modern times (the plot of A Darkness at Sethanon is something like that I believe). |
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08-03-2012, 01:40 AM | #6 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 78
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You know what staying loyal means right? You better edit that wikipedia article again, because you are clearly wrong.
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