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07-21-2012, 03:09 AM | #1 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 78
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Valian year?
I just looked through some threads on this forum and found this quote:
Quote:
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07-21-2012, 06:45 AM | #2 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,037
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I would say that the aging of any mortals in the Undying Lands would not be slowed in any way.
As a matter of fact, it might be the opposite. Recall what the emissaries from the Valar said to the Númenórean king Tar-Atanamir: Quote:
Though being in the Blessed Realm would have been a healing experience for Frodo especially, as a mortal he wasn't really meant to be there, so I rather think the warning of the Eldar to the Númenóreans could be taken at face value.
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07-22-2012, 11:06 AM | #3 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alqualondë
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from what i've gathered as to the nature of aman, immortality is not a property of the landmass itself, but rather its sapient inhabitants; the prohibition against mortals is not about the acquisition of an indefinite lifespan by humans who set foot there, as it is about making a sacred (not holy) space for those with indefinite lifespans. in addition, the landmass of aman is supposed to be free of this so-called "Melkor element" that suffuses middle-earth down to the quantum level.
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07-23-2012, 05:30 AM | #4 |
King's Writer
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I think that what the Elves told the Númenoreans is exactly the fate that a short living creature would have in Aman. It is not that their life would end any bit earlier for being in Aman. Probably they would live even a bit longer since no sickness would come an probably even aging of the body would be slowed.
But Men are bound to leave the world. We have only one example of how the pure state of that fate was meant to look like, and that is Elessar. He becomes satisfied with the result of his live and precives that his role is played. He could have lingered around a bit longer, but it would just have prevented a necessary change for some time. Therefore he decided that the end of his life had come, laid down and died. In Aman it would have been much more difficult for any Men to be satisfied with his life: If all and every thing around you would be long living indeed, the preception of your own short life would be much different. In your own precetion your influence on anything would be nigeltible. Even so you might have started very improtant chan of events, since changes are slow indeed you would never see even a shadow of any result. As Men are, generaly they would revolte against that. They would try harder (and as long as possible) to make some impresion. That is what the picture of "moths in a light too strong and steadfast" does imply to me. Respectfuly Findegil |
07-23-2012, 01:08 PM | #5 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,034
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I don't think the sections already quoted (from one of my posts I think) refers to Mortals or to those special Mortals that were brought to Aman for healing and so on. I don't think Frodo and Bilbo were meant to be included under: '... all those creatures that were thither transplanted or were trained or bred or brought into being for the purposes of inhabitation in Aman.' Granted, 'creatures... transplanted' is a bit open for examle, but I would say Frodo and Bilbo did not recieve a notably longer life span (again if this text were to ultimately hold true even for beasts and the Valian Year).
And I'm pretty sure that in the same essay Aman (which includes a section on Aman and Mortal Men) published in Morgoth's Ring, the idea put forth (as I read it anyway) is that mortals do not age faster in Aman. Part of the essay Aman and Mortal Men reads... Quote:
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07-23-2012, 02:05 PM | #6 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 145
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Quote:
Still, the details of how they viewed this returning of the gift is not spelled out except in the case of Elessar Telcontar - and that, largely, because of the contrast of having Aragorn conversing with a half-elf who chose mortality only after living as an elf for many hundreds of years --- and that is a unique conversation. The only other similar conversation in the history of Arda (Beren to Luthien as they departed Tol-Galen for the last time on their journey from Arda) was never recorded - at least, never recorded for mortal ears - so we don't know how Beren advised Luthien. Actually, that conversation would have been doubly unique - since even Aragorn lacked the perspective of Beren (& Luthien). THEY had already died once before. Fear not, Lu. We've walked this path before. Departing is just the start of another journey - one we will continue to walk together - on into the presence of the One who made all Ea. |
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07-23-2012, 06:40 PM | #7 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,037
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Quote:
Quote:
That indicates that Frodo, Bilbo, Gimli, and later, Sam, would after arrival in Aman be able to choose voluntarily to lay down their lives and die, even as the Númenóreans. So the 'weariness' felt by Aragorn would come upon them, and then they would know their time had come. Would 'clinging' to life then lead to the loss of their faculties, as happened to Tar-Atanamir?
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