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01-18-2003, 11:09 AM | #1 |
Animated Skeleton
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What is might?
Hi.
I wanted to know what "might" is in Tolkien's books. He always writes "XX was the mightiest of the ..". In the Silmarillion it is almost in every chapter that a specific person is mightiest or strongest or .. I don't know. So, I simply wanted to know, what might is. In the LOTR it is written, that Gandalf was really mighty, but what was it? He didn't show his might very often. Once when he spoke the spell of command when the Balrog was on the other side of the door. Or in the Silmarillion, Chapter Of the Maiar is written, that Eonwe was the mightiest in Arms in Arda. And so on .. Thanks.
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01-18-2003, 11:37 AM | #2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Ganadalf/Olorin's might is his humility. He was siad ot have learnt a lot form Nienna and it shows. Gandalf refusing to head the council is an example of this. I think that Gandalf is so wise and strong becuase of his humility.
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01-18-2003, 11:56 AM | #3 |
Haunting Spirit
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Might does not always show itself in the same way. Might could be in arms but might could also lie in ones mind. Everybody is mighty in his/her own way. The same holds true for weakness. While Faenor was mighty with his hands and with his spirit, he had the weakness of being to bold and to vengeful. The might of Frodo and Sam was not in their bodies, but in their friendship and their will to complete what they set out to do.
[ January 18, 2003: Message edited by: Jurion ] |
01-18-2003, 02:36 PM | #4 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Gandalf's might was not solely in his humility. He was a very powerful spirit in the traditional sense: his ability to effect his will upon the physical world. His humility, as well as his genuine selfless love of others, and his willing submission to the Powers, were virtues that set him apart because they are rarely coupled with such power as he innately possessed. This combination made him uncommonly successful in his endeavors. He also had Eru's favor, no doubt because of his exceptional temperament.
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01-18-2003, 02:58 PM | #5 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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You just have to look at Nienna's rank as one of the Chief of the Valar, yet she has little might in the sense of fighting skills, wheras Orome, who is a little impetous, may be mightier then her in battle, but still doesn't have her power, rank or status and the same goes for Yavanna and Varda or any of the Valier. Remeber, 'weak' Sam, was more resilent to the ring then the mighty Isildur or Boromir. That is the beauty of Tolkien's works-might can be percieved in many diffrent ways.
[ January 19, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]
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01-18-2003, 06:08 PM | #6 |
Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox
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I always took might to simply mean strength. It fits in every sentence that way. They were a mighty group, They were a strong group. Olorin's might was wisdom, Olorin's strength was wisdom. It works! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Iarwain
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01-18-2003, 10:22 PM | #7 | |
Delver in the Deep
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Quote:
For more thoughts on the power of words in Middle-Earth, click here.
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01-19-2003, 07:14 PM | #8 | |||||||||
Corpus Cacophonous
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Quote:
But careful reading shows that each is described as powerful in their own way: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The same applies with the Elves in the Silmarillion. Finwe's sons are described thus: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
[ January 19, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]
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01-20-2003, 05:44 AM | #9 | |
Delver in the Deep
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I appreciate the fact that you looked up quotes for this one, Saucy (unless you have the Memory of Champions), but you have not given proof that either Fingolfin or Finarfin are literally referred to with the word "might", aside from your own opinion on the matter (which may differ from JRRT's). The only might I would see applicable to Finarfin would be, "I might come with you to Middle-Earth... but then again, I might not."
The Valar are certainly mighty, I don't deny that, but this comes from the awesome power that they wield, not because of other factors such as understanding Ilúvatar. Are you suggesting that Manwë is not physically strong? I think as Lord of the Airs he wields immense physical power, as do Ulmo, Aulë, Melkor and Ossë. Oromë is certainly mighty in arms. He is the hunter, and skilled with weapons, and just because Tulkas is his superior in wrestling doesn't make his might due solely to other, non-martial factors. I stand by my assertion that Quote:
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01-21-2003, 09:39 AM | #10 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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" Mighty are the Ainur and mightiest among them is Melkor" Eru to the Ainur, before entering Ea,before they had assumed bodily shape, hence eliminating the might=strength in battle factor.
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“If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone |
01-21-2003, 12:51 PM | #11 | ||
Corpus Cacophonous
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Quote:
Doug, one of the quotes that I gave was an example of might being used in a sense other than physical strength in arms: Quote:
The paragraph from which the quotes about the three brothers came is introducing them and describing their redeeming characteristics. Since Feanor's characteristics in this regard are described in terms of might, I believe that descriptions applied to his brothers define their might too, ie strength, endurance and valour in Fingolfin's case and fairness and wisdom in the case of Finarfin. Hence, this paragraph is a prime example of how JRRT uses "might" to refer not just to physical strength, but also strength in other respects.
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04-22-2008, 03:19 PM | #12 |
Cryptic Aura
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I think Estelyn Telcontar might be able to supply some examples of might used in reference to musicians.
Funny, though, that the homophone mite means rather the opposite.
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04-23-2008, 02:37 AM | #13 |
Princess of Skwerlz
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'Songs of power' would indeed be an interesting discussion topic, but I'm too busy with my paper on Middle-earth instruments this week to post about it...
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04-23-2008, 08:18 AM | #14 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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It strikes me that a distinction is being made here that is not unlike the distinction Tolkien makes between "magic" as it is very commonly presented (that being some external power that is drawn upon through the use of rituals or devices) and the kind of "magic" Tolkien uses that is an internal power resulting from the nature of the being employing it. In his letters, Tolkien's references to "power" almost always describe it in dangerous terms; in L151, he says that possessiveness and rebellion against morality will "lead to the desire for Power, for making the will more quickly effective." Power, in his mind (especially with a capital P), appears to relate closely to domination. Although he does not speak specifically of "might," when one considers many of his uses of it, it would appear (at least to me) that he is speaking of something more personal, of individual strength, as well as individual power. He makes an interesting point about the nature of power in an attempt to explain something about Tom Bombadil:
Quote:
Okay, the brain is sputtering a bit, here, early morning after a long night. But there's a thought in there somewhere...
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04-23-2008, 01:34 PM | #15 | |
Shade of Carn Dűm
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Here is a quote where "might" clearly doesn't refer to "physical power" but more to "influence".
Quote:
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