Otho and Lobelia Apply for a Mortgage - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

alatar · 10-10-2008, 01:32 PM

Been rereading The Fellowship of the Ring as part of the hundredth reread. What struck me as odd this time through, though maybe it's just me, is that when Otho and Lobelia try to burgle Bag End from the 'there and back again' Bilbo, Otho is only 31 and Lobelia is 23 years in age. Didn't Hobbits come of age at the magical number of 33? Was Otho premature?

Also, oddly enough, though Otho was 8 years older than Lobelia, they both expended exactly 102 years on this Middle Earth. Quite a coincidence, or just convenient?

Inziladun · 10-10-2008, 09:41 PM

I would guess that the Hobbit's Coming of Age at 33 wasn't yet conceived by J.R.R.T at the time of The Hobbit.
He didn't know he would one day be writing a sequel, and I'm sure that when he did get around to writing FOTR he probably never considered the ages of Otho and Lobelia to be overly significant, minor characters that they were.

Bêthberry · 10-11-2008, 08:19 AM

They probably applied for one of those subprime mortgage specials. Not only did they not need a large down payment, they didn't have to be at the age of majority and that led to all kinds of delinquency.

Lalwendë · 10-12-2008, 05:46 AM

Maybe a Hobbit 'coming of age' just meant something different in The Shire than it does to us. It's not as if they have longer childhoods or much longer lives anyway. The traditional British 'coming of age' point, at 21, is pretty meaningless anyhow as most things you need to be an adult to indulge in become legal at the age of 16, 17 and 18. I can't think of anything which is or ever has been legalised at the age of 21?

Inziladun · 10-12-2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

I can't think of anything which is or ever has been legalised at the age of 21?

Well, in many parts of the USA 21 is the legal age at which one can purchase alcohol. Other than that, you're right. It's largely symbolic: a number that says you are now an adult, and are expected to act as one.
It would appear that "33" for Hobbits was similar: a status change and a sign that the standards of conduct demanded by society were now different.

Morthoron · 10-12-2008, 08:21 AM

I would say this is another example of Tolkien having to forcibly marry two dissparate stories into the semblance of a single seamless narration. One doesn't get the impression that the Sackville-Bagginses are giddy teen newlyweds in The Hobbit.

Mithalwen · 10-14-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Maybe a Hobbit 'coming of age' just meant something different in The Shire than it does to us. It's not as if they have longer childhoods or much longer lives anyway. The traditional British 'coming of age' point, at 21, is pretty meaningless anyhow as most things you need to be an adult to indulge in become legal at the age of 16, 17 and 18. I can't think of anything which is or ever has been legalised at the age of 21?

21 used to be the voting age until 1970, the age of consent for homosexual men between 1967 and 2001, and for a while it was the age at which you could marry without parental consent (1751-1822) -it reverted to 12 for a girl and 14 for a boy until 1929!!!!!

However I imagine it would have been the legal majority and voting age that surely Tolkien was thinking of.

Personally 21 wasn't meaningless for me since my family were traditionalists and I got some serious jewellery

alatar · 10-14-2008, 10:41 AM

That all said, then why is Frodo's 33d birthday such a big todo?

10-10-2008, 01:32 PM	#1
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Otho and Lobelia Apply for a Mortgage Been rereading The Fellowship of the Ring as part of the hundredth reread. What struck me as odd this time through, though maybe it's just me, is that when Otho and Lobelia try to burgle Bag End from the 'there and back again' Bilbo, Otho is only 31 and Lobelia is 23 years in age. Didn't Hobbits come of age at the magical number of 33? Was Otho premature? Also, oddly enough, though Otho was 8 years older than Lobelia, they both expended exactly 102 years on this Middle Earth. Quite a coincidence, or just convenient? __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

10-10-2008, 09:41 PM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,037	I would guess that the Hobbit's Coming of Age at 33 wasn't yet conceived by J.R.R.T at the time of The Hobbit. He didn't know he would one day be writing a sequel, and I'm sure that when he did get around to writing FOTR he probably never considered the ages of Otho and Lobelia to be overly significant, minor characters that they were. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

10-11-2008, 08:19 AM	#3
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	They probably applied for one of those subprime mortgage specials. Not only did they not need a large down payment, they didn't have to be at the age of majority and that led to all kinds of delinquency. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

10-12-2008, 05:46 AM	#4
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Maybe a Hobbit 'coming of age' just meant something different in The Shire than it does to us. It's not as if they have longer childhoods or much longer lives anyway. The traditional British 'coming of age' point, at 21, is pretty meaningless anyhow as most things you need to be an adult to indulge in become legal at the age of 16, 17 and 18. I can't think of anything which is or ever has been legalised at the age of 21? __________________ Gordon's alive!

10-12-2008, 08:21 AM	#6
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,509	I would say this is another example of Tolkien having to forcibly marry two dissparate stories into the semblance of a single seamless narration. One doesn't get the impression that the Sackville-Bagginses are giddy teen newlyweds in The Hobbit. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

10-14-2008, 10:41 AM	#8
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	That all said, then why is Frodo's 33d birthday such a big todo? __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

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