Hobbits? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Anárion Cúthalion · 08-26-2008, 11:53 PM

It has been some time since I last read the Silmarillian, but a question still remains; why are the Hobbits, Stoors and other Halflings not mentioned until the Third Age? Did Tolkien leave us any clues as to their origins?

Seriously, it is an awful gap in our knowledge.

Inziladun · 08-27-2008, 06:36 PM

In the Prologue to FOTR, J.R.R.T. offers only this :

Quote:

....Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves. ....What exactly our relationship is can no longer be discovered. The beginning of Hobbits lies far back in the Elder Days that are now lost and forgotten. Only the Elves still preserve any records of that vanished time, and their traditions are concerned almost entirely with their own history, in which Men appear seldom and Hobbits are not mentioned at all.

So, the Elves apparently recorded most of the histories of the First Age, specifically the Elves of Beleriand, and Hobbits don't seem to be anywhere about. Very sensible of them, really, since Morgoth didn't make for a very good neighbor.

I wonder if the Dwarves weren't possibly the first of the 'speaking peoples' to come into contact with them, as they seem throughout The Hobbit and LOTR to take hobbits for granted, whereas most others seem to regard them as legends, or such.

Morthoron · 08-27-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

So, the Elves apparently recorded most of the histories of the First Age, specifically the Elves of Beleriand, and Hobbits don't seem to be anywhere about. Very sensible of them, really, since Morgoth didn't make for a very good neighbor.

I wonder if the Dwarves weren't possibly the first of the 'speaking peoples' to come into contact with them, as they seem throughout The Hobbit and LOTR to take hobbits for granted, whereas most others seem to regard them as legends, or such.

Well, considering Hobbits did not journey westward over the Misty Mountains until well into the 3rd Age, it is unlikely any Elves of the Sindar or Noldor races (those for whom the histories of the 1st Age were written) were even aware of the halflings previous to the 3rd Age (or cared much at all at that point).

Anárion Cúthalion · 09-01-2008, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Well, considering Hobbits did not journey westward over the Misty Mountains until well into the 3rd Age, it is unlikely any Elves of the Sindar or Noldor races (those for whom the histories of the 1st Age were written) were even aware of the halflings previous to the 3rd Age (or cared much at all at that point).

Some very good points. I wish that I was able to get to this sooner. But it is said in the prologue of the Fellowship of the Ring that halfings are closer in kinship with men that elves or dwarves, yet it seems that they remain a race apart. Tolkien, it seems, loved to leave people with riddles that can never be solved.

That is, unless I'm an over-analyzer.

Selador · 11-28-2008, 12:55 PM

The origins of Hobbits remains a mystery that I think Tolkien preferred to leave unsolved. I think that it is better left that way. But really, the existence of Hobbits is a sort of an historical accident.

Tolkien's letters make it clear that he was content to close the book on Hobbits after he had written the book The Hobbit. He really never intended them to get pulled into the universe of his greater mythology and was very resistant to any sort of sequel. But while JRRT wanted to flesh out his histories of Men and Elves, his publishers were insistent that a sequel involving Hobbits be written. So, we ended up with a masterpiece that encompasses both.

As you say, Tolkien had already established the origins of Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Now he had to squeeze Hobbits into the mix somewhere. He does so by making them sort of cousins of Men - a branch of the race known specifically as the 'human' race (as Tolkien tells us in his letters). I think he made them akin to Men because he saw both as purely non-magical beings, unlike Elves and Dwarves. But as far as I know he never tells us exactly how or where the Little Folk came upon the scene. I guess they must always remain just Eru's little secret, that in the end becomes the key ingredient to the fulfillment of his plan.

Alfirin · 11-28-2008, 04:17 PM

Isn't it also interesting how Tolkein makes each of the three "tribes" of hobbits closer to one of the three other major races in ME. The Stoor's are specifically said to be the most "mannish" of hobbits (they even grow beards like men, and are known to somtimes follow the mannish (to hobbits) trait of wearing shoes). Fallowhides are descibes as being tall and willowy for hobbits and well has having a more lyrical poetic nature, this sound a bit elvish. This leaves the Harfoots who I beive are from time to time describled in dwarvish words (they are the shortest of hobbit races squattest and, I beived the most stocky) the practical, no nonsense world view also seems rather dwarvish. (As I recall most of the hobbtion hobbits are mostly Harfoot, whith Frodo and the other hobbit "Gentry" having strong Fallowhide blood ties.)

08-26-2008, 11:53 PM	#1
Anárion Cúthalion Newly Deceased Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Anórien, at the foot hills of the Ered Nimrais Posts: 9	Hobbits? It has been some time since I last read the Silmarillian, but a question still remains; why are the Hobbits, Stoors and other Halflings not mentioned until the Third Age? Did Tolkien leave us any clues as to their origins? Seriously, it is an awful gap in our knowledge.

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11-28-2008, 12:55 PM	#5
Selador Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 16	The origins of Hobbits remains a mystery that I think Tolkien preferred to leave unsolved. I think that it is better left that way. But really, the existence of Hobbits is a sort of an historical accident. Tolkien's letters make it clear that he was content to close the book on Hobbits after he had written the book The Hobbit. He really never intended them to get pulled into the universe of his greater mythology and was very resistant to any sort of sequel. But while JRRT wanted to flesh out his histories of Men and Elves, his publishers were insistent that a sequel involving Hobbits be written. So, we ended up with a masterpiece that encompasses both. As you say, Tolkien had already established the origins of Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Now he had to squeeze Hobbits into the mix somewhere. He does so by making them sort of cousins of Men - a branch of the race known specifically as the 'human' race (as Tolkien tells us in his letters). I think he made them akin to Men because he saw both as purely non-magical beings, unlike Elves and Dwarves. But as far as I know he never tells us exactly how or where the Little Folk came upon the scene. I guess they must always remain just Eru's little secret, that in the end becomes the key ingredient to the fulfillment of his plan.

11-28-2008, 04:17 PM	#6
Alfirin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 435	Isn't it also interesting how Tolkein makes each of the three "tribes" of hobbits closer to one of the three other major races in ME. The Stoor's are specifically said to be the most "mannish" of hobbits (they even grow beards like men, and are known to somtimes follow the mannish (to hobbits) trait of wearing shoes). Fallowhides are descibes as being tall and willowy for hobbits and well has having a more lyrical poetic nature, this sound a bit elvish. This leaves the Harfoots who I beive are from time to time describled in dwarvish words (they are the shortest of hobbit races squattest and, I beived the most stocky) the practical, no nonsense world view also seems rather dwarvish. (As I recall most of the hobbtion hobbits are mostly Harfoot, whith Frodo and the other hobbit "Gentry" having strong Fallowhide blood ties.)