The Undead of Middle-earth

[Nazgûl-king]

Middle-earth has quite a few undead beings, Nazgûl, Barrow-wights, the Dead Men of Dunharrow and their king from the paths of the dead, and the dead figures in the Dead Marshes. What differences and similarities do you think there are between the various undead of Middle-earth? I though this would make an interesting topic.

[The Might]

I guess the biggest similiraty is that they all exist in the Wraith-world.
Also, there seems to be a certain hierarchy of these entities, as the Wk was capable of simply stirring up the spirits of the Barrow-downs as if he could command them.
Guess that that might have also had something to do with some lessons from Sauron, he was after all known as the Necromancer.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

One big difference is their origin, what they were and why they were in Middle-Earth. The Nazgul and Dead Men of Dunharrow were originally living Men. The Barrow-Wights were some sort of "spirits from Rhudaur and Angmar" (The Appendices to LotR) who entered the empty mounds (though no one says they could not have been spirits of evil Men from there - recently there was some debate about this and someone mentioned that in HoME there was a variant of Sauron trapping spirits of some, but I believe these were Elves, and forcing them to do his bidding - therefore the "Necromancer" nickname). Also, the Dead Men were undead because they did not fulfil their oath; as a result of curse. The Nazgul were undead because of their "fading" after wearing the Nine Rings. The Barrow-Wights... well, who knows. If they were originally just "spirits", then they might have inhabited the wraith-world from the very beginning and therefore, calling them "undead" won't be as "politically correct". Though there is the possibility that a Barrow-Wight, in fact = some empty shell of a skeleton + some sort of a said spirit to give it a "life". So Barrow-Wight as a whole could be called "undead", while the original spirit may be not. But that's just guessing.

[Gordis]

The nazgul were not dead - as they have never died. "Undead" describes them well. Their bodies had faded, passed into the Spirit world, had become invisible, but they were still MATERIAL. The nazgul could wield swords, ride horses and interact with the Physical world. If anything, they resembled faded Elves, the Lingerers, but their origins were, of course, different.

The victims of a Morgul-wound also fall into the same category, undead wraiths, much like the nazgul, but weaker and under their command. Frodo was fading when brought to Rivendell, becoming a wraith, but he was not dying. Reading the description of Minas Morgul attentively, one might assume that there were quite a number of such wraiths gathered there.

The Dead of Dunharrow, in contrast, were indeed DEAD, not "undead": their bodies had long turned to dust, but their fëar were held in ME by their Oath. They were simple naked spirits devoid of material bodies - ghosts. They could only interact with the living by the fear they caused, but they couldn't wield material swords or ride normal horses. I believe they were entirely powerless against the fearless.

There were also Houseless Elves - In a way they resembled the Dead of Dunharrow. Their bodies had been slain and long gone, but their fëar refused the summons of Mandos and remained wandering bodiless in ME, seeking new bodies to inhabit. Thus they were quite dangerous to the Living.

Some scholars like Alvin Eriol (http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=20554) speculate rather convincingly that the Barrow-Wights were Houseless Elves housed in the decaying bodies or skeletons of the long-dead Dunedain buried in the Barrows.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Gordis

The nazgul were not dead - as they have never died.

You say it as if anyone ever said that on this thread. As far as I am aware, no one did. But the similarity between Nazgul and Dead Men, in contrary to the Barrow-Wights (probably), is that they were originally living Men. That was the main point of the similarity.

[Gordis]

Yep. But I was talking about the differences.
I was trying to point out at some length that the Dead are not 'undead" (what a crazy observatioin!)

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

The Barrow-Wights... well, who knows. If they were originally just "spirits", then they might have inhabited the wraith-world from the very beginning and therefore, calling them "undead" won't be as "politically correct". Though there is the possibility that a Barrow-Wight, in fact = some empty shell of a skeleton + some sort of a said spirit to give it a "life". So Barrow-Wight as a whole could be called "undead", while the original spirit may be not. But that's just guessing.

Interesting take on the Barrow-Wights. I have nothing to contribute right now, but I'd love to find out more about them... always found them one of the many mysteries in Tolkien that I wanted to know more about.