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01-17-2008, 11:34 AM | #1 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In front of my PC
Posts: 164
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Books on Tolkien linguistics?
Can you name some books written on the languages of Middle-earth and their history? And also, who would you rate as the top Tolkien linguists?
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01-17-2008, 11:50 AM | #2 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,321
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By history, do you mean internal or external?
Internally, the most detailed is the Lhammas, published in HME V The Lost Road (although superseded by later writing). Externally, the best approach would be to buy the relevant issues of Parma Eldalamberon wherein Tolkien's linguistic papers are being published starting with the Qenya Lexicon of ca. 1915 and working forward. If you want to 'learn Elvish', the best Quenya course is Helge Fauskanger's at www.ardalambion.com. For Sindarin, there's nothing out there better than David Salo's book "Gateway to Sindarin." Be advised, though, that both represent synthesized 'neo-Eldarin,' making up forms to fill the gaps Tolkien left, and sloughing over the fact that JRRT's languages were constantly being changed and revised throughout his lifetime, so there's no 'one' Quenya or Sindarin. You might want to read Carl Hostetter's "Elvish as She Is Spoke", at www.elvish.org. Who are the best? In one corner, Carl Hostetter, Christopher Gilson, Arden Smith, Patrick Wynne and Bill Welden. In the other corner, Fauskanger and Salo. Be advised, there is very bad blood between the two groups! The Hostetter group are the designated editors of Tolkien's linguistic manuscripts.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
01-17-2008, 12:09 PM | #3 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In front of my PC
Posts: 164
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Thanks. And why the bad blood?
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01-17-2008, 01:57 PM | #4 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,321
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Why the bad blood? Because the Hostetter group are the designated editors of Tolkien's linguistic manuscripts.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
01-17-2008, 03:50 PM | #5 |
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
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zxcvbn -
Unlike WCH, I have no "insider's" special tips, and I am not a specialist in languages. (That's putting it mildly!) But the bad blood between the linguists has sadly been going on in public for a long time and is evident to even someone like myself who is a casual observer. You can easily see it in the posts on various websites and yahoo groups. When it began, some criticized the "official" linguists for being too slow to publish documents and not generous enough in sharing materials. Hostetter and the others appointed by CT felt they were unfairly batted over the head by impatient and unreasonable critics. More recently, there's been arguments over a number of topics, including Salo's attempts to expand on the Elvish tongues by adding words that JRRT never sanctioned. This initially occurred in the context of the movies, but Salo then went ahead and published a volume on Sindarin that many feel is pure fiction. So the movie/book divide is also a factor in this disagreement.
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01-28-2008, 05:03 AM | #6 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Don't know if this site is widely known,,,,
Possibly not entirely on topic but this is a nice site for pronunciations - it gives examples of the different languages Tolkien invented, used & was influenced by - like Gothic, Old Norse, Old English, Finnish & Welsh & there is an audio option if you want to hear them. http://www.jrrvf.com/%7Eglaemscrafu/texts/index-a.htm
When Tolkien recorded excerpts from his works into George Sayer's ferrograph he first of all read the Lord's Prayer into it as a precaution! (it was a MACHINE after all) That part of the recording has been lost apparently - unless someone knows different, but this site has the text & audio of someone else reading it http://www.jrrvf.com/%7Eglaemscrafu/audio/attaunsar.mp3 so you can get an idea of what it would have sounded like. You can also hear Tolkien pronouncing words from his own languages too. |
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